Vocal tracking techniques that might help with pitch?

Along the lines of what Chili suggested - I'm a verse at a time guy at the moment because these songs I'm writing aren't exactly playable via a single guitar and so I don't get the chance to bed them in, often I don't even finalise the words until the day I record them - but I'll do six takes of a verse and chorus, an go back and listen, and without doubt it's the later ones where you're in the groove and feel of the song.
 
Armistice said:
Along the lines of what Chili suggested - I'm a verse at a time guy at the moment because these songs I'm writing aren't exactly playable via a single guitar and so I don't get the chance to bed them in, often I don't even finalise the words until the day I record them - but I'll do six takes of a verse and chorus, an go back and listen, and without doubt it's the later ones where you're in the groove and feel of the song.
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Ah, so you do multiple takes of each verse and chorus, and then patch together the best ones at the end? And you find that typically the later takes are the better ones?

I should look into that. I've always just sung the whole song all the way through and chosen the "best" take (usually the last one)...when I notice I've screwed up (often), I just stop rolling and start over. My problem is that I obviously don't catch my own screw ups in the moment very reliably.

I'm starting to figure out how to paste together different regions of different vocal takes on my machine. I replaced that 2nd verse in the john lennon song that you pointed out, plus another passage that bothered me, and I think that really helped, so thanks for that!
 
If you ever did want to try singing along to a tuned track just hit me up. It only takes a few minutes. :)

I'm kinda bored now anyway because my studio will be shut down for about 6 weeks during foundation repairs. :(
 
jimmys69 said:
If you ever did want to try singing along to a tuned track just hit me up. It only takes a few minutes. :)

I'm kinda bored now anyway because my studio will be shut down for about 6 weeks during foundation repairs. :(
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Hey, thanks for offering that jimmy! I may take you up on that at some point. For now, I think I'm going to just try to stick to material that is better suited to my voice...uh...once I find that material.

Oh man, 6 weeks? Sounds expensive! Sorry man.
 
Stand up, lights down, have fun, maybe a few beers and try to record a few takes without headphones, singing louder than before, into some kind of SM57 and against the monitors. Don't be afraid about leakage and all that shit. You should find your limits sooner or later... :) sometimes it works.
 
- sometimes one ear off, if i feel it's working then, but it's not always a requirement.
- i usually do 12 takes, with my best in the 7-10 area
- when i get to the later takes, i have the earlier ones to sing over. for some reason, that helps me to hear other takes underneath my current one. not sure why. it sounds more full maybe. i turn previous takes down about 10dbs when i sing with them.
- i warm up for at least 30 mins before singing. scales and lip trills. i try to remember to do the practices even on days that i don't record.
 
Dreverb said:
Stand up
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Check

Although I've had some good takes whilst lazily sitting in a chair.

Dreverb said:
lights down
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Check

Dreverb said:
have fun
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Check

Dreverb said:
maybe a few beers
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Maybe???

Dreverb said:
try to record a few takes without headphones, singing louder than before, into some kind of SM57 and against the monitors. Don't be afraid about leakage and all that shit. You should find your limits sooner or later... :) sometimes it works.
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Never tried any of that...at the right levels with something like a 57, bleed might not be an issue. Cool ideas. Thanks.
 
andrushkiwt said:
- sometimes one ear off, if i feel it's working then, but it's not always a requirement.
- i usually do 12 takes, with my best in the 7-10 area
- when i get to the later takes, i have the earlier ones to sing over. for some reason, that helps me to hear other takes underneath my current one. not sure why. it sounds more full maybe. i turn previous takes down about 10dbs when i sing with them.
- i warm up for at least 30 mins before singing. scales and lip trills. i try to remember to do the practices even on days that i don't record.
Click to expand...

See, this is cool. We're getting into some stuff I've never thought of before. Singing over a previous take? Interesting. I would worry that the previous take would lead me astray if it wasn't up to par, but I don't see a reason not to try it. It's great that you all are offering up all of this stuff from your own experience. I really appreciate it. That's what I love about this place.

I refuse to practice though. Just call me Allen Iverson.
 
Print my lyrics and use a music stand with a pen (in case I need to modify the words to fit the music)
I turn down the backing volume and my vocals up so I stop singing so loud and have a less range (I crank up the gain to force me to sing lower as well)
Record it as many times as my voice can hang on
Autotune every take, look at where I am screwing up, use it at some point a a vocal guide
Take the best tracks (usually whole sections, but rarely a single take)
Autotune to smooth out the edges (usually whatever default is) if it has to correct too much, another take.

Repeat rinse until I tell myself, that is as good as I can do. (Print it)

Sometimes, I will try to try it totally different just to see if maybe the original approach was just not working. Once can't be afraid to come at it from a totally different angle.
 
DM60 said:
...so I stop singing so loud and have a less range...
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Is that a common thing do you think? For a singer's range to lessen the louder they sing? I don't know, but I'm curious. If so, I wonder why that is? Never thought about that before...

DM60 said:
Sometimes, I will try to try it totally different just to see if maybe the original approach was just not working. Once can't be afraid to come at it from a totally different angle.
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Yeah, I do that too with a lot of things. It's nice to have tried and true methods to fall back on, but I often enjoy just reinventing the wheel every once in a while to keep in interesting and in the hopes of discovering something better.
 
heatmiser said:
Is that a common thing do you think? For a singer's range to lessen the louder they sing? I don't know, but I'm curious. If so, I wonder why that is? Never thought about that before...
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For me, the louder I sing, the less range I have. Maybe trained singers or those who sing for a living don't have that problem. If I keep my voice lower (about speaking levelish), I think I have more control, less pitch issues, and my vocals definitely doesn't sound strained.
 
DM60 said:
For me, the louder I sing, the less range I have. Maybe trained singers or those who sing for a living don't have that problem. If I keep my voice lower (about speaking levelish), I think I have more control, less pitch issues, and my vocals definitely doesn't sound strained.
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Cool, thanks for that. I think that may be true for me as well? I seem to remember singing one tune years ago at a lower, conversational level (because others were sleeping nearby or something) and was surprised how good it sounded afterwards. Never went back to that though for some reason. lol I always get too excited and just belt it out! Something else for me to try though - thanks!
 
I'd say range and pitch accuracy both decrease while singing quietly. What increases range [besides warmup/practice] and pitch is being relaxed, which maybe people associate with a quiet setting? Some of my worst vocals ever where speaking type vocals when doing them quietly. Brutal. I ran this by my gf who is a trained singer, and she agreed.
 
Nola said:
I'd say range and pitch accuracy both decrease while singing quietly. What increases range [besides warmup/practice] and pitch is being relaxed, which maybe people associate with a quiet setting? Some of my worst vocals ever where speaking type vocals when doing them quietly. Brutal. I ran this by my gf who is a trained singer, and she agreed.
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Hmm. Sounds like it's different for at least some people, but maybe in general, that is true. I'm not really sure. It's one of those things that I don't have any intuition about at all. I swear there was one song I did where I sung much more quietly than normal, and I got a lot of positive feedback, but that could have been coincidental too as there are always lots of factors.

Dreverb said:
sure, but lets not confuse forcing with singing louder.
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Ok. I will try to remember that. Not sure I always know the difference, as sometimes everything feels forced, but I think I know what you mean.
 
I can't sing - really. When I'm in tune my voice is of the unpleasant, annoying type and when I'm off pitch it's almost the same but REALLY unpleasant and REALLY annoying. I'm not fishing for comments to the contrary as I have a realistic awareness of my own limitations.
I've avoided singing as much as possible knowing the above. I collaborate with folk and have others sing. It may be my words and, sometimes, my melody but the voice really shouldn't be mine. I've tried the live with it, listen to it, learn from it strategy BUT the more I listen to something the more I accept what it is as being OK. That's how I ended up loving Schoenberg's atonal stuff I assume. Additionally I REALLY am so cloth eared that I can't tell what a note should be when it's missed so digital pitch adjustment is almost as difficult as singing in tune for me.
this is my absolute BEST attempt at being in tune:

and as the title suggests it's just an example of how the lyric might be phrased against the backing. I have wanted to redo this as there are several phrasing errors and I reworked the lyrics a little but I can't match, let alone better, this attempt so have left it for the time being.
 
heatmiser said:
...Singing over a previous take? Interesting. I would worry that the previous take would lead me astray if it wasn't up to par...

I refuse to practice though. Just call me Allen Iverson.
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i can see how you'd think that. for some reason, it just works. i don't know why. i guess when i first get up to record, i'm not sure how edgy i need to sing, how much gut to put in it, or how much grit. but once i have that first nasty track out of the way (which is probably thin and pitchy), i feel more at ease singing over it. suddenly, it sounds thicker, more full, more in tune, and i can judge better how much grit to put into the performance. bare bones, first take isn't my thing. i'm not a trained singer. but on a recording, i think i can do pretty well. especially with EQ, verb, and compression. :)

practice? we're talking about practice? i mean, practice. we're talking about practice. not a game. not a game.... practice.
 
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