Time for a new mic?

...I must ask why you have issue with the 58. It should not need as much input gain as a SM7b.

Found this on GS:


"In addition, all three intended uses of the "combo"jacks are clearly explained in the Scarlett 2i2 Manual.
The issue of insufficient Scarlett 2i2 mic pre gain using a SM57, SM58 or SM7B comes up at least once a month on this forum, so a search of posts will turn up the same information and advice. It has not changed in years since the 2i2 was released.

Having stated all of the above, the actual mic input gain of the Scarlett 2i2 using the XLR input is very low for use with a Shure SM57. The SM57 output, for a quite loud sound pressure level of 94 dB SPL, is only -56dBV.

That means that is someone is speaking into a SM57 at a relatively loud sound level of 94dB SPL, and the mic is connected to a Scarlett 2i2 Mic input set to maximum gain, the digital recording level will not exceed -10dB(FS). Also, the Scarlett 2i2 Mic pres are fairly noisy when operated at full gain.

They can work acceptable with with a high-output, phantom-powered condenser mic, but really don't have enough gain for a low-output dynamic like a SM57 or SM58, unless you are only recording very loud sounds. A loud drum set or a close-miced guitar amp producing a SPL of 105-110 dB SPL is fine, but many other potential sound sources are simply not loud enough.

Most people who need to record using s SM57/58 using a Scarlett 2i2 interface wind up adding a Triton FetHead or Cloud Cloudlifter CL-1 pre-pre amp (sometimes also called a "head-amp") ahead of the Scarlett 2i2 Mic input. A FetHead or Cloudlifter CL-1 adds 20dB or more additional gain to the 2i2 Mic input signal path.

For most recording applications, a SM57 or SM58 really need a mic pre with 60 to 65 dB gain., as well as a very low input noise figure. The Scarlett 2i2 gain is simply not enough for those mics, and it's too noisy. It's a poor match for a SM57/58.

The oft-repeated solutions for this situation are:

1. Use your SM57 with the Scarlett 2i2 Mic input, but add a FetHed to boost the gain and reduce the input noise to reasonable levels.

2. Change to a phantom-powered condenser mic with a sensitivity of at least -37dbV@ 1PA (like a AT 2020 or similar).

3. Dump the Scarlett 2i2 and switch to a interface with higher gain internal mic pres (look for at least 60dB gain, but 65 dB gain is better).

4. Add an external Mic pre ahead of the Scarlett 2i2 and connect its "line-level" output to the 2i2 "line-level" 1/4-inch TRS input using a balanced TRS/TRS cable.
Again look for an external mic pre with 60 or 65dB of gain."

Scarlett 2i2 and Shure sm57 gain problems - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community
 
That's all accurate. The other option instead of using a fethead is getting a good preamp (or you can build one from a kit for like $350)and then using the 2i2 simply for A/D conversion, by passing it's preamps. Fethead is a much cheaper solution. I don't like cloudlifters because they need their own cables, and that gets messy.
 
That's all accurate. The other option instead of using a fethead is getting a good preamp (or you can build one from a kit for like $350)and then using the 2i2 simply for A/D conversion, by passing it's preamps. Fethead is a much cheaper solution. I don't like cloudlifters because they need their own cables, and that gets messy.

Now, I have a Micro-DI that I use in front of my Gibson Studio - without it, the interface clips at the lowest volume. We've talked about that before though, think I made a thread on it a long time ago. But that Micro-DI can both add and subtract 15db of gain. I'll check that article out again to see how much I'd need, but I wonder if that would work if I all need is pure gain.
 
Those pickups must be so hot to clip at the lowest volume. Makes me wonder: In the Focusrite (i.e. Scarlette Mixcontrol) software do you make sure to have it on 'instrument level' and/or use the pad built into that software? I have the i818, but I'd think they work the same in that regard.

Edit: NM Just saw this thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...echniques/line-instrument-398571/#post4484592

IMO, yes line will give a poor tone. I'd re-track any parts that were recorded that way using instrument level. That software should have a build in pad if it's still too hot.
 
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Now, I have a Micro-DI that I use in front of my Gibson Studio - without it, the interface clips at the lowest volume. We've talked about that before though, think I made a thread on it a long time ago. But that Micro-DI can both add and subtract 15db of gain. I'll check that article out again to see how much I'd need, but I wonder if that would work if I all need is pure gain.

15DBs of gain in either direction should be plenty. Some ribbons need a lot more but for that Shure I think that would be enough.
Sometimes adding an in-line preamp will change the impedance a bit and thus the tone of the mic. This is something to watch out for with them. Personally I went with a better preamp and use my focusrite now as an A/D convertor and emergency/backup if I need 4 inputs or need to transfer from tape. This was a better solution, imo. Though I kept the in-line pre (fethead) for certain situations.
 
Here's some mics to check out

If you guys heard my music, then all the better. I have new monitors, which I'm loving, and I think the weak link now is my $99 condenser mic. I believe I've made good use of it, and I usually get comp's on my vocals, but I wonder if a better mic would make it all the better.

I'm thinking SM7B...? Untreated room, though I use heavy padding in my walk-in closet...lots of blankets/comforters, pillows, and stuffing things into corners and on walls, when I sing in there.

Thoughts?

What is your budget for a new mic?
Let's assume your budget is about $350
An SM7b is a dynamic mic, but a darn good one at that. It is used extensively for spoken word vocals.
In the same range and also a great dynamic mic is the Electrovoice RE-50.
I have never used those mics for singing so I am not a good reference for them.
Generally speaking, condenser mics are considered better choices for vocals than dynamic mics.

You might want to consider some of these mics:
CAD e100s or e300s condenser
CAD A77R Ribbon microphone
Audio Technica 4040
Rode NT1
AKG C214

Regards
Rory McDonald
 
Now, I have a Micro-DI that I use in front of my Gibson Studio - without it, the interface clips at the lowest volume. We've talked about that before though, think I made a thread on it a long time ago. But that Micro-DI can both add and subtract 15db of gain. I'll check that article out again to see how much I'd need, but I wonder if that would work if I all need is pure gain.

That micro DI wants to see an unbalanced instrument input.
If you're suggesting using it with a microphone, I'd go another way.
A: High output microphone
B: Low output mic and new preamp
C: Low output mic and fethead or cloudlifter.
 
We've discussed this before. I don't have the MixControl. It only comes with the next level interface and up. Not the 2i2 alone.

Just throwing this out here.... Upgrade interface maybe?

You obviously have the talent. Make the gear as worthy as you are man.
 
A good preamp for a mic will often have a nice DI input as well, so you'll be able to just plug your guitar and bass into that box as well, and get the benefit of dollars spent there for all your inputs. I've used mine for bass (but mic the amp for electric guitar these days).

I wouldn't want anything less than 65dB gain, in case you look at one of those big diaphragm dynamics, like the SM7b or RE-20 down the road. You don't want to have to peg the preamp either for those lower gain dynamics, either, and 60dB is borderline if you're not a screamer (IMO).

But, here's the dead horse again - get a preamp, get a cloudlifter, and order a mic or two, etc., etc.. Test, send stuff back. You cannot tell any other way. Or, make friends with someone that has all this stuff :).
 
A good preamp for a mic will often have a nice DI input as well...

How about this? Comes with plugins I'd probably buy at some point anyways. I have Win 10 64-bit. Electric guitar, bass, mic.

Universal Audio Arrow 2x4 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface with UAD DSP | Sweetwater

UA 610‐B
Marshall Plexi Classic Amplifier
Teletronix LA‐2A Legacy
UA 1176LN Legacy
UA 1176SE Legacy
Pultec EQP‐1A Legacy
Pultec Pro Legacy
Precision Channel Strip
Precision Reflection Engine
Precision Delay Modulation
Precision Delay Modulation L
Raw Distortion
Softube Bass Amp Room 8x10
RealVerb‐Pro
[MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION]; [MENTION=43272]Steenamaroo[/MENTION]; [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION]
 
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How about this? Comes with plugins I'd probably buy at some point anyways. I have Win 8 64-bit. Electric guitar, bass, mic.

Universal Audio Arrow 2x4 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface with UAD DSP
....
Fascinating piece of equipment. It is, of course, an interface and not just a preamp so would replace your 2i2.

The big thing with this is that it really requires Thunderbolt 3 so that's the first question to answer about your current PC. And, obviously, they expect to reel you into the UA plugin world, which is a pretty expensive place to go, at least that's my impression, not having ever used them. But, it's very interesting.

Couldn't find an actual spec on the interface preamp gain or find any videos of it being used with lower gain mics, but I didn't look that hard.
 
Unbelievable, that. Pages upon pages of super shiny impressive bullshit but no number.

Welp, turns out my USB-C isn't Thunderbolt compatible. Damn it.

Any UAD recommendations, since they come bundled with those great plugins? 2 inputs needed, usb-c 3.0, win 10 64 bit

[MENTION=196982]keith.rogers[/MENTION]

@
 
The opinions here are hard on the Focusrite. It doesn't have enough gain for an obsolete mic. It's only an entry level professional audio interface, when you look at the price.

The SM7b, otoh, is fantastic. If you don't look at the price, that is.

It's only a simple dynamic cardio in the wrong housing, made popular by broadcast.

And broadcast has been known to adapt things for an entirely different reason than people think. The SM7b was popular because it provided that dark-brown deep radio-DJ voice that was needed in the 70ties. It's a basket mic, because that was wat broadcast wanted. They suspend mics upside down. A habit that goes back to the era of tube mics. Lead the heat from the tube away from the capsule. Longer capsule life, less dirt.

There's the Fostex 6301. THE standard in broadcast for portable monitoring. Is it that good? Not at all. It's a mediocre speaker at best. But Fostex got lucky. Broadcast adapted it as their standard speaker. Not for the quality, but for it's ruggedness and small size. And soon, Fostex upped the price to a ridiculous level.

There are numerous examples and quality of sound has little to do with it. For a home-recordist, and even for a pro studio, buying these is often ridiculous.

Buy a modern mic and keep the Focusrite. Getting something really, audibly better would be frightfully expensive. Getting a better mic wouldn't be as expensive, as long as you stay away from the hyped antiques. The mic you have, isn't bad at all, as you've already learned.

Rent some mics. Use them and decide what sounds best in a few months, when you can listen more objectively to your own recordings. Then make an investment.

There's so much stuff to choose from these days that you could be trying mics for the rest of your life. And even a 25$ Neewer sounds more or less OK. It's a hell of a mic even, if you consider the price.
 
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I use anything from an MXL 770 and 990 to a Vintage NT1 and a Blue Spark. They are all under $200 and each have their own uses.

Do yourself a favor. Record something with 2 different mics. Mix it and export it to a Wav file. Then, play if for someone you know who knows nothing and cares less about mixing. Chances are, they won't be able to tell the difference. Keep in mind, I'm a firm believer that the main thing is a good recording. And if your singer, guitar player, etc., is less than perfect, equipment is not the answer. I suggest watching some videos from Graham Cochran. He is the only one I know on YouTube that isn't trying to get you to buy equipment and plug ins. If you have money to burn, go for whatever makes you happy, However, if you want to save some $$$, concentrate on your recording and mixing skills before you drop a bunch of cash into equipment.
 
The opinions here are hard on the Focusrite. It doesn't have enough gain for an obsolete mic. It's only an entry level professional audio interface, when you look at the price.

The SM7b, otoh, is fantastic. If you don't look at the price, that is.

It's only a simple dynamic cardio in the wrong housing, made popular by broadcast.

And broadcast has been known to adapt things for an entirely different reason than people think. The SM7b was popular because it provided that dark-brown deep radio-DJ voice that was needed in the 70ties. It's a basket mic, because that was wat broadcast wanted. They suspend mics upside down. A habit that goes back to the era of tube mics. Lead the heat from the tube away from the capsule. Longer capsule life, less dirt.

There's the Fostex 6301. THE standard in broadcast for portable monitoring. Is it that good? Not at all. It's a mediocre speaker at best. But Fostex got lucky. Broadcast adapted it as their standard speaker. Not for the quality, but for it's ruggedness and small size. And soon, Fostex upped the price to a ridiculous level.

There are numerous examples and quality of sound has little to do with it. For a home-recordist, and even for a pro studio, buying these is often ridiculous.

Buy a modern mic and keep the Focusrite. Getting something really, audibly better would be frightfully expensive. Getting a better mic wouldn't be as expensive, as long as you stay away from the hyped antiques. The mic you have, isn't bad at all, as you've already learned.

Rent some mics. Use them and decide what sounds best in a few months, when you can listen more objectively to your own recordings. Then make an investment.

There's so much stuff to choose from these days that you could be trying mics for the rest of your life. And even a 25$ Neewer sounds more or less OK. It's a hell of a mic even, if you consider the price.

Ok. Wow. You nailed it. I obviously wasted my money. Great you pointed it out or I might waste more money. Too bad I don't have any experience and you showed up to help...

By the way, $25 mic? Whatever dude. Enjoy those....
 
Ok. Wow. You nailed it. I obviously wasted my money. Great you pointed it out or I might waste more money. Too bad I don't have any experience and you showed up to help...

I didn't say you wasted your money. Just that both the interface he has and the mic he has are equally useable. But the opinions here paint another picture.

I can't predict which mic will work with his voice. I can, however, predict how a preamp or interface will work with a certain mic. Not how it will sound.

By the way, $25 mic? Whatever dude. Enjoy those....

I only buy those to cannibalize. Cheaper than an empty body. And I was amazed at the relative quality. But don't run out yet. It seems the quality has gone down and the price went up since some youtubers started hyping this thing. As is to be expected...

A good empty body runs from 65 to 120$. I paid 18€ for a Neewer when there was no hype yet. The metal work is fabulous. The board is fine, the components mostly OK. Even the capsule is fairly OK, if you except that it's an SDC electret and not the LDC they are sold for. The weakest point is the XLR. Hard to replace and it's gold-plated, which means it'll probably wear out soon.
 
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