What does this room frequency analysis tell you?

[tb88]

Hi,

asking for some insight from you more experienced guys. I have a room measuring W231 D313 H250 cm. Running slowly a sine wave from 1 hz to about 20 Khz with a frequency analysis app in Honor 7 smartphone through my JBL LSR305 monitors, I get the following graph. I have no idea how accurate or flat the microphone is, but the sine wave reading and my smartphone app reading concerning the frequency meet pretty accurately. Also when the DBs go up in certain frequency, I definitely hear it louder, too.

My has no treatment at the moment, only a carpet. What I understand is that when building a studio room I should first concentrate absorbing the low end. What does this graph tell you, are there some frequency areas in need of special attention?

Thanks guys.

 

[Tadpui]

I'd say that your monitors don't produce frequencies below about 50 Hz. That's to be expected with the LSR305 and their 5" drivers. But it appears that there's a pretty sizable node between 50-100 Hz that's probably caused by your room. That's a pretty good sign that some bass traps will do you favors.

either that or the LSR305s really don't output much in the 50-100Hz range.

Broadband trapping is usually a good idea in small bedroom/garage/basement studios anyways. Superchunks in all of the corners you can fit them in, and some 2'x4'x4" panels at your first reflection points is a great starting point.

 

[Massive Master]

My has no treatment at the moment

Cart before the horse. I wouldn't even bother measuring without at least a "base coat" of broadband trapping. That could mean different things to some, but I personally find an absolute minimum of all four corners and four high-sides. *Especially* in a smaller space.

That 20dB null you're seeing around 95Hz would probably be a 10dB peak less than a foot away. Been there / done that. No fun.

 

[garww]

Ya, that is just a for fun reading. My 8-inch give plenty of bass. So possibly, both the recording device and speakers are in the wrong place : ) Ta' null is fine as long as it is not at your mixing position

 

[Mack Caster]

My has no treatment at the moment, only a carpet.

You will want to remove that and hopefully you have concrete underneath. If not, click track hardwood flooring will be a good second. If you can, go to this website and put in your room dimensions. Take a screen shot and post it back on this thread.

 

[mjbphotos]

You're using your smartphone to monitor the frequency? That would explain the craziness below 100Hz - its not the monitors, it's the phone's mic.

 

[tb88]

Just edited, my monitors indeed are LSR305s, not LSR308s. So 5-inch speakers. The speakers are positioned in the long end of the room and the measurement is from the mixing position. There is a big spike in the 55-60 Hz area, yeah.

The floor is hardwood on top of concrete. Thanks for the input concerning where to start the dampening from, I will do some plans how to proceed with those.

 

[tb88]

Apparently I need to get on the desktop to be able to post the screenshot..

 

[miroslav]

Are you measuring both monitors at the same time or one side at a time form the mix position?

 

[tb88]

Here is the screenshot and link to the room modes. I tried pink noise, the graph seems pretty much the same? I measured the frequencies keeping the phone approximately at my head level, both monitors playing.

What do these room nodes tell you concerning the soundproofing needs? Thanks again.




amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

 

[miroslav]

You need to measure one monitor/side at a time...and then you can average the results of both measurements.
If you have audio coming through both...it will not be accurate.

You also need to calibrate you mic, your soundcard...and use the audio timing sync option so that all the measurements you do have the same reference point. That's why using an already acceptable mic is the better way to go. At least go get a Radio Shack SPL meter, the Room EQ Wizard provides a calibration file for their mic.

If you're not doing the measurements correctly...you are wasting your time trying to asses the results.

 

[mjbphotos]

Here is the screenshot and link to the room modes. I tried pink noise, the graph seems pretty much the same? I measured the frequencies keeping the phone approximately at my head level, both monitors playing.

What do these room nodes tell you concerning the soundproofing needs? Thanks again.


View attachment 100498

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

It's not soundproofing, it's acoustic treatment. You need to use a decent microphone that can pick up low frequencies, your phone doesn't cut it. All rooms can benefit from some bass traps in the corners, ceiling cloud above mixing area and point-of-first-relection side wall traps.

 

[Massive Master]

The phone might do it -- That said, I stand by my original statement. It's not even worth *trying* until there's a "base coat" of broadband treatment. OF COURSE there are going to be terrible peaks and nulls. It's like asking if there's air and a door.

 

[Mack Caster]

Here is the screenshot and link to the room modes. I tried pink noise, the graph seems pretty much the same? I measured the frequencies keeping the phone approximately at my head level, both monitors playing.

What do these room nodes tell you concerning the soundproofing needs? Thanks again.


View attachment 100498

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

It tells me that regardless of what you do, you will get nothing but poor results. Please keep in mind this is not only my opinion, but the opinions of the professionals that built these calculators. HOWEVER, since this is a "Home Recording" community, we do what we can with what we have.

First of all, any room less than 1500 square feet will never give you professional results. You room has 600 sq feet. You room dimensions also put you OUT SIDE of the "bolt area". This means your room does not have a good distribution of modes. This is critical if you plan on using monitors for mixing or mastering. That is what this test does, it shows you the ideal area to listen to audio as well as what frequencies will be effected. You would be better off using headphones to mix with and then use a mastering service for the finial mix down.

View attachment 100501

Now as far as using low end bass traps, save your money. You would have to use so much treatment that your room will become so small, you would not be able to use it for the intended purpose. So what can you do? Use treatment to control room flutter using the 33% rule. 33% treated, 33% UN treated and 33% diffusion. You will also need to use "Close Miking" to help pull this off.

You must understand that when [MENTION=4307]massive[/MENTION]Mastering tells you that you are putting the cart before the hoarse, he is 100% correct. Your room size is so small that it has no way to deal with the sound waves (which creates pressure), as well as the energy that you will be producing if you plan on using your monitors. This IS NOT my opinion, this is a mathematical equation that will never change.

Your room is 7.5 feet wide, 10 feet long with a ceiling height of 8 foot. I am not telling you that doing some room treatment will not improve your situation, I am simply saying you will never be able to obtain professional results.

 

[mjbphotos]

It tells me that regardless of what you do, you will get nothing but poor results....

First of all, any room less than 1500 square feet will never give you professional results. You room has 600 sq feet.
Now as far as using low end bass traps, save your money. You would have to use so much treatment that your room will become so small, you would not be able to use it for the intended purpose. So what can you do? Use treatment to control room flutter using the 33% rule. 33% treated, 33% UN treated and 33% diffusion. You will also need to use "Close Miking" to help pull this off.

I think you mean cubic feet! And you give contradictory advice - bass traps (the 4" thick rockwool type) will treat flutter echo as well as absorb some low end reflections.
As far as 'getting nothing but poor results' - people can learn how to use what they've got. To tell them that no matter what they do it will be poor, then give advise in contradictory again.

 

[Mack Caster]

I think you mean cubic feet! And you give contradictory advice - bass traps (the 4" thick rockwool type) will treat flutter echo as well as absorb some low end reflections.

You are correct, cubic feet is what I meant and the money spent on 4" bass traps is in fact a waist of money for a room the OPs size.

As far as 'getting nothing but poor results' - people can learn how to use what they've got.

Correct and that is just what I said.

To tell them that no matter what they do it will be poor, then give advise in contradictory again.

I believe you meant to use the word "is" instead of "in". Again I stand by my statement. In a room that size and the fact they mentioned using monitors, regardless of what they do, they will get poor results when it comes to mixing and mastering. I never said anything about tracking.

@tb88 , I highly suggest you do your homework before of investing hundreds/thousands of dollars into your space if you plan on using this space, to mix or master using monitors. Just trying to save you some money. If you plan on just using this space to record in, that is a whole differiant matter.

 

[miroslav]

For a small room, the "best" approach, IMO, is to increase absorption...take the room "out" of the equation as much as you can.
Yeah, it's going to be dead, and not the the best sounding solution...kinda like a large vocal booth.
It's not easy mixing in a very dead space, the sounds just get sucked up...but maybe better than having excessive nodes and ringing.

 

[mjbphotos]

You are correct, cubic feet is what I meant and the money spent on 4" bass traps is in fact a waist of money for a room the OPs size.

I believe you meant 'waste', not 'waist'. And I respectfully disagree. Full frequency absorption (bass traps) can only help, especially in small rooms.

@tb88 , I highly suggest you do your homework before of investing hundreds/thousands of dollars into your space if you plan on using this space, to mix or master using monitors. Just trying to save you some money. If you plan on just using this space to record in, that is a whole differiant matter.

My guess is that the OP wants to do both, as most of us have no choice but to track and to mix in the same space - we work with what we have. Constructing (or buying) some 4"x2'x4' traps that can easily be moved (around the room or to a new location, if you move to a new place) does not have to be expensive, and will never be a waste unless you give up recording altogether. If you're even a little handy with tools, you can build traps for under $40 each.

 

[Mack Caster]

My guess is that the OP wants to do both, as most of us have no choice but to track and to mix in the same space - we work with what we have.

Again, I have never implied anything else in this thread and we are both parroting the same thing.

Constructing (or buying) some 4"x2'x4' traps that can easily be moved (around the room or to a new location, if you move to a new place) does not have to be expensive, and will never be a waste unless you give up recording altogether.

While using bass traps in a room this size will help, no doubt, but so will nailing up pillows on your walls and ceilings. As far as being cost effective and producing the desired results, I stand by my posts.

If you're even a little handy with tools, you can build traps for under $40 each.

You are 100% correct. $40 x 12 = $480.00 for something that will not give you the results needed, to properly mix and master your audio. I spent 9 months researching what I needed concerning sound treatment for my two rooms. They are both a little bigger then the OPs. I read the hundred of articles, watched dozens of videos and I made my final decision, after I sent my room dimensions to two companies that provide this type of professional service.

The high bid was $8,700 and the low bid was $8,200. The only thing both companies had in common was they WOULD NOT guarantee that after I applied their systems, I would get the desired results as mentioned on their website due to my room size. In fact, they both told me that due to the size of my rooms, I was better off applying flutter control and mixing with headphones.

Now, that is just exactly what I am going to do and that is the exact advice I will give to anyone who is asking the same questions that I was concerned with, 9 months ago. This is my last post concerning debating this issue. Like everything else in life, we all must learn from our own mistakes, regardless of whom we may listen to.

 

[mjbphotos]

"Nailing up pillows on your walls" You have rooms just a little bigger than the OP's, and you believed places that would quote you over 4000 per room for treatment?
Alright, I'm done here.