Testing Electrical Consumption
- Thread starter Dans Klimkowski
- Start date
I don't know if the system ever got into production Miroslav but I recall a programme about a farmer who was pee'd off because when his genny kicked in for a few minutes outage it cost him dear in diesel . He invented a gadget using a hefty inverter that coped with a 5 minute or so loss and triggered a timer that started the generator. Of course, one the genny was chugging it charged the inverter battery.
Dave.
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
If I leave the generator on auto...and power goes out...it doesn't kick in immediately. There's usually a couple of minutes pause at the transfer switch for that exact reason, because many times you get those short, one minute or less outages.
Then when the transfer switch senses no power for a couple of minutes or so...it goes on for a 1-2 minute warm up, and then finally the transfer switch kicks it over. When power comes back on, again, the switch waits for a couple of minutes or so, to make sure it's on...then it switches back to the utility company power.
That's also why I leave it on manual, and when the power goes out, I'll even wait a little longer. I may even call the utility company, since they'll give the expected down time...before I decide to turn on the generator.
If it's daylight, I can live without power for a bit...no big deal.
I also wouldn't want it automatically firing the generator when I'm not home...kinda pointless.
Then when the transfer switch senses no power for a couple of minutes or so...it goes on for a 1-2 minute warm up, and then finally the transfer switch kicks it over. When power comes back on, again, the switch waits for a couple of minutes or so, to make sure it's on...then it switches back to the utility company power.
That's also why I leave it on manual, and when the power goes out, I'll even wait a little longer. I may even call the utility company, since they'll give the expected down time...before I decide to turn on the generator.
If it's daylight, I can live without power for a bit...no big deal.
I also wouldn't want it automatically firing the generator when I'm not home...kinda pointless.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
There are flywheel energy storage systems that can kick on in less than a cycle. Hospitals use them. Even if they have a generator, having the flywheel to transition from utility power during an outage is a great idea. A bit off topic but interesting.
Safest way to protect ALL of the equipment and at the same time double up as a safety feature if a full blackout occurs, is to install a UPS unit and run everything off this.
I realise that they can be a bit expensive for a reasonable sized unit, but so is the equipment that can quite potentially be damaged/ruined because of a short cycle blackout or a brownout (ie voltage flutters/dips to a low level).
A good UPS will also supply mains level voltage after a blackout for a period of time, during which time any unsaved work/data can be saved rather than being lost. It would also give time to safely turn off equipment if required.
I realise that they can be a bit expensive for a reasonable sized unit, but so is the equipment that can quite potentially be damaged/ruined because of a short cycle blackout or a brownout (ie voltage flutters/dips to a low level).
A good UPS will also supply mains level voltage after a blackout for a period of time, during which time any unsaved work/data can be saved rather than being lost. It would also give time to safely turn off equipment if required.
garww
New member
Studios are built isolated from the grid using storage batteries. I'm pretty sure most of that is just fleeing from A/C noise, but there are benefits, huh
Ya, I like the "Dynamo" solution for energy. Going from spinning the bicycle wheel with the water hose, you just optimize everything. In theory, maybe just a timed drop of water will maintain optimal synergy. It would have to work with a load condition, but that might just be a matter of scale.
Ya, I like the "Dynamo" solution for energy. Going from spinning the bicycle wheel with the water hose, you just optimize everything. In theory, maybe just a timed drop of water will maintain optimal synergy. It would have to work with a load condition, but that might just be a matter of scale.
"If I leave the generator on auto...and power goes out...it doesn't kick in immediately. " Ah! I think that was also part of the farmer's problem, he did not want even a second's loss of juice.
The UPS would do the job. Still leave the genny on manual but have a lamp say, monitoring utility power then you could start YOUR countdown or phone the company* .
THAT* Makes me laugh (and bloody angry!). I would spend ten minutes getting to speak to an actual human. The first message, after the interminable 'press 2 if you want to pay a bill' robotic messages, would be ' Please be patient, we are experiencing an unusual volume of calls' Well of COURSE you are! Freaking POWER's gone out! Even then the person I got would be on the Indian sub cont' and being mutton I would hardly be able to understand he or she. That would not matter since they would know ***T. Northampton is not in their universe.
Price WE pay (and it is a BIG price per kWhr) for privatization!
Dave.
The UPS would do the job. Still leave the genny on manual but have a lamp say, monitoring utility power then you could start YOUR countdown or phone the company* .
THAT* Makes me laugh (and bloody angry!). I would spend ten minutes getting to speak to an actual human. The first message, after the interminable 'press 2 if you want to pay a bill' robotic messages, would be ' Please be patient, we are experiencing an unusual volume of calls' Well of COURSE you are! Freaking POWER's gone out! Even then the person I got would be on the Indian sub cont' and being mutton I would hardly be able to understand he or she. That would not matter since they would know ***T. Northampton is not in their universe.
Price WE pay (and it is a BIG price per kWhr) for privatization!
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Mmmm...unless you're talking about a small computer-based studio, with minimal outboard gear...you would need a hell of a UPS to power a full studio rig that has a console, tape decks, rack gear, guitar amps...etc...plus the computer...
...and then the power would last about 10-15 minutes maybe, even with the bigger UPS units.
So what do you do when the power is out for 2-3 hours or more?
I run a UPS on my computer and LCD monitors...that's it.
Also...you want the more expensive UPS for any audio gear. The cheap ones don't provide true sine wave AC...if you care.
...and then the power would last about 10-15 minutes maybe, even with the bigger UPS units.
So what do you do when the power is out for 2-3 hours or more?
I run a UPS on my computer and LCD monitors...that's it.
Also...you want the more expensive UPS for any audio gear. The cheap ones don't provide true sine wave AC...if you care.
Miropslav,
I agree that it would have to be of a reasonable size, hence the reason that I think that I said they they were not real cheap and it was also the reason I think that I stated "a good one" so as to get a smooth/regulated supply.
Also, I was not considering actually being able to run the entire studio for very long after a blackout, but rather enough time to save any work that you had been working on and to then turn off the equipment in the correct manner/order and wait until the mains power was restored.
I remember doing a job at a local educational institution a number of years ago and in one department they had about four full sized racks that were loaded with VHS recorders (probably about 40 units), a matrix switcher ( to allow various VHS inputs and outputs to be switched) and a number of 10" CRT type monitors, etc and all worked quite happily off a physically smallish (not sure of the capacity) UPS unit that gave about 15mins back-up time ---- well enough time for a generator to come on line so as not to loose recordings that were being undertaken every day/night.
---------- Update ----------
I agree that it would have to be of a reasonable size, hence the reason that I think that I said they they were not real cheap and it was also the reason I think that I stated "a good one" so as to get a smooth/regulated supply.
Also, I was not considering actually being able to run the entire studio for very long after a blackout, but rather enough time to save any work that you had been working on and to then turn off the equipment in the correct manner/order and wait until the mains power was restored.
I remember doing a job at a local educational institution a number of years ago and in one department they had about four full sized racks that were loaded with VHS recorders (probably about 40 units), a matrix switcher ( to allow various VHS inputs and outputs to be switched) and a number of 10" CRT type monitors, etc and all worked quite happily off a physically smallish (not sure of the capacity) UPS unit that gave about 15mins back-up time ---- well enough time for a generator to come on line so as not to loose recordings that were being undertaken every day/night.
---------- Update ----------
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Dave has inspired me to give one of my favourite rants in favour of progressive turn on (and off) for another reason besides power consumption.
It was drilled into me 40+ years ago to always turn on your gear in the order of signal flow. In a live situation, this would normally mean, outboard racks, then the mixer, then phantom power on the mixer as required, and finally the amps or powered speakers. Working this way avoids any chance of one bit of gear putting a driver-busting thump through the system. Turn off is the reverse--amps first, then phantom, then mixer then outboard.
In a home recording set up this can become a lot easier--for the most part just have your computer and interface on and stable--and any phantom required turned on--before turning on your monitors. Switch off is the reverse again.
Wth modern gear I'm probably just being paranoid--but better safe than sorry.
"and then the power would last about 10-15 minutes maybe, even with the bigger UPS units." Yes M' but that would probably 'do' the farmer.
His beef (b'dah-tish!) was that the generator kicked in from cold (lot of fuel) at the start of an outage that might only last a few minutes. His setup ran the juice from an inverter for those few minutes, THEN the genny kicked in if utility power had not come back. If it did, no fuel was wasted.
Twere a time ago I saw the progg' and USP'ess did not exist. at least for mortals such as we.
Dave.
His beef (b'dah-tish!) was that the generator kicked in from cold (lot of fuel) at the start of an outage that might only last a few minutes. His setup ran the juice from an inverter for those few minutes, THEN the genny kicked in if utility power had not come back. If it did, no fuel was wasted.
Twere a time ago I saw the progg' and USP'ess did not exist. at least for mortals such as we.
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Unless the farmer need to cut some audio tracks...why do we care about the farmer?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
The reality is that in most audio studios these days, the only thing that needs to be saved, are computer files...which is why the only thing I bother having a UPS on, is the computer rig.
A small home studio can probably run everything through it, as there is usually little rack gear...but, the point is, why put such a load on a UPS with rack gear and amps and such...it will only degrade the battery faster during outages.
I mean...if I was in the middle of a track, and the power blinked out and the UPS took over...I wouldn't worry too much about continuing to record...rather just to shut everything down and save the files I already had.
In a larger, analog studio setup...running everything on a UPS system would require quite a large system, to hold you over, and then you would still want some kind of an automatic transfer to a generator backup...but I doubt anyone here needs that kind of backup coverage. I can see that in major studios and places where big events are broadcast...etc.
IOW...there's nothing to save/backup with rack gear, etc...so it just needs protection...and then a nice UPS for the computer system.
arcaxis
Well-known member
And when you're working at midnight and the power goes off keep a flashlight within reach so you don't go tripping over cables and gear when the lights go out
garww
New member
Though its not pretty, I've been set-up for 9-volt for many years (more of a boy scout thing). beyond that are a couple of those battery power packs (with compressor)
Out in the middle of rural scrub desert, I could listen to the radio, take a nap, or record something on the battery 4-track. My q25 controller works fine with a 9-volt battery on the power jack, and the recorder and the QY10 both have sound modules. Milli-watt kitchen
Out in the middle of rural scrub desert, I could listen to the radio, take a nap, or record something on the battery 4-track. My q25 controller works fine with a 9-volt battery on the power jack, and the recorder and the QY10 both have sound modules. Milli-watt kitchen
Chili
Site Moderator
Based on this thread and the THREAD the OP previously started about power strips, I decided to get one of those new-fangled current monitors from Amazon. I always thought I was drawing about 7 - 8 amps when everything is on. Turns out I'm wrong. Dual processor workstation, 2 video monitors, UAD audio interface, Alesis synth, powered studio monitors, bookshelf speakers with a powered sub woofer, two printers, two guitar amp sim pedals, desk and under-desk lighting, phone chargers.... 3 amps max. 2 amps just for the PC and monitors.
That's cool. I always thought it would be way more than that. A $15 monitor was worth the peace of mind.
Thanks to the OP for bringing up the subject.
That's cool. I always thought it would be way more than that. A $15 monitor was worth the peace of mind.
Thanks to the OP for bringing up the subject.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...that was my point, it takes a bunch of gear or some heavy duty gear to start pulling serious amps.
My voltage regulator unit has an amp meter built into it...but it's not super-fine. It's in 2 amp segments 2 to 20 amps, mainly so you know when the unit is reaching it's limit.
What model meter did you get on Amazon, and how's the metering precision on it?
For $15, I might get it if it's more precise...and I can also confirm what the meter on the voltage regulator is telling me, but I think it should be pretty close. My entire power rig is made up of Furman units, and that's pretty much their bread-n-butter...so I would think the metering is good.
My voltage regulator unit has an amp meter built into it...but it's not super-fine. It's in 2 amp segments 2 to 20 amps, mainly so you know when the unit is reaching it's limit.
What model meter did you get on Amazon, and how's the metering precision on it?
For $15, I might get it if it's more precise...and I can also confirm what the meter on the voltage regulator is telling me, but I think it should be pretty close. My entire power rig is made up of Furman units, and that's pretty much their bread-n-butter...so I would think the metering is good.
Not been about, in hosp having a kidney biopsy...Miss me? NAH!
"...it will only degrade the battery faster during outages." Don't think so Mir'. The old SLAs needed to be discharged 2 or 3 times a year to keep them healthy. Lithiums might be different but I doubt it would do any harm,
The farmer? Just that HE came up with a system that stopped short term outages from starting the generator. I assume he was having a lot of these and it was eating his fuel. Cheaper to re charge a UPS for a 2 minute break than start and run the genny?
It would seem logical to me that ALL decently sized backup generator setups would now use such a short term 'fill in'? But what do I know!
Dave.
"...it will only degrade the battery faster during outages." Don't think so Mir'. The old SLAs needed to be discharged 2 or 3 times a year to keep them healthy. Lithiums might be different but I doubt it would do any harm,
The farmer? Just that HE came up with a system that stopped short term outages from starting the generator. I assume he was having a lot of these and it was eating his fuel. Cheaper to re charge a UPS for a 2 minute break than start and run the genny?
It would seem logical to me that ALL decently sized backup generator setups would now use such a short term 'fill in'? But what do I know!
Dave.