Speakers/Power Amp

Snowman999

Snowman999

Active member
One of the problems I've found in mixing is my speakers EVENT 20/20(Sam Ash) and Samson Servo 170 power amp sound SO GOOD, nothing sounds bad through them. Everything is so evenly placed that bass never booms, and guitar solos blend beautifully unless you push them to where it's can't be ignored.

These work beautifully just playing records (vinyl for you youngins) through them.
 
How they sound for pure listening is irrelevant...and speakers that "sound so good" where they flatter everything...or actually *bad* for mixing duties. Of course, you can get use to mixing on anything, as long as your mixes translate well on other playback systems. So that's really what you want from monitors, honesty, clarity...and translation.
If they also make everything sound good...that's bonus. Not saying that to have the above they have to sound "bad"...just that you don't want hyped speakers that are actually lying to you.
 
I have the Event TR8's which are very similar to the 20/20's but have not compared them personally. The TR8's were a cheaper version of the powered ones. They sure look exactly the same. Not sure what the difference is.

I assume you have the passive version of the 20/20's since you list a power amp. Cool!

I have been mixing with the TR8's for a few years and they do translate very well. I recently upgraded to a new set of monitors but still use the Event's. They are like an old friend. :)
 
How they sound for pure listening is irrelevant...and speakers that "sound so good" where they flatter everything...or actually *bad* for mixing duties. Of course, you can get use to mixing on anything, as long as your mixes translate well on other playback systems. So that's really what you want from monitors, honesty, clarity...and translation.
If they also make everything sound good...that's bonus. Not saying that to have the above they have to sound "bad"...just that you don't want hyped speakers that are actually lying to you.
Click to expand...

When I went to Sam Ash, I asked for something good and affordable. This is one of the sets they recommended. I mentioned they sound great for listening to vinyl, because if someone were looking for an affordable set of speakers for a system, these are definitely worth it.

The studio I used to record at had a pair of speakers about the same size as the 20/20, and a massive PA set in each corner. As we'd mix he'd switch back and forth from each to be sure everything sounded right. Of course Elvis once recorded on his 24 track console when it was in TN. Even though he had excellent equipment and he was a complete pro, he'd still send us home with a cassette each night to try out on every sound system we had.

Once you've used a certain set of speakers long enough, and have heard the mixes on other speakers, you get to know how you have to adjust to balance the sound.

In the end, if you know what you're doing (I know I don't), you can mix on a set of $25 computer speakers.

jimmys69 said:
I have the Event TR8's which are very similar to the 20/20's but have not compared them personally. The TR8's were a cheaper version of the powered ones. They sure look exactly the same. Not sure what the difference is.

I assume you have the passive version of the 20/20's since you list a power amp. Cool!

I have been mixing with the TR8's for a few years and they do translate very well. I recently upgraded to a new set of monitors but still use the Event's. They are like an old friend. :)
Click to expand...

When something sounds good, it just sounds good. I don't change anything till it breaks.
 
"In the end, if you know what you're doing (I know I don't), you can mix on a set of $25 computer speakers".

It's not worth the effort, though. Your EQ to flatten the speakers will be all over the place - making them practically unbearable
 
Snowman999 said:
In the end, if you know what you're doing (I know I don't), you can mix on a set of $25 computer speakers.


When something sounds good, it just sounds good. I don't change anything till it breaks.
Click to expand...

Well...you're the one who was having "problems" because they "sound so good" to you.
Now you're defending them. :D


garww said:
"In the end, if you know what you're doing (I know I don't), you can mix on a set of $25 computer speakers".

It's not worth the effort, though. Your EQ to flatten the speakers will be all over the place - making them practically unbearable
Click to expand...


Right...people hang their hat on this notion that you can mix on anything...but in reallly, why would you want to?
I mean....why use monitors that cause you problems and where you have to make all kinds of adjustments to make them work for mixing....not just listening.
If a monitor isn't revealing everything honestly...how do you even go about properly "fixing" things to make it do that...???
 
I don't buy-in to the "revealing" portion of Hi-Fi, etc. for mixing. I just need what I need. First, I don't need boxes for all aspects of mixing. I have headphones for 600Hz down. I look to midrange first and then the cloudy areas below that. Better gear will let you distinguish each individual stringed instrument, but I don't see that as a necessity for mixing - though it can be more fun.

You want better gear for listening pleasure, for sure, but our poster doesn't say what speakers/amps were in the old studio, or, if it's MONO, stereo, QUAD and what records, tables, phono preamp, and cartridges were used for the evaluation. I can't really find much for specs on the servo 170 - doesn't seem all that broadband(nowhere near DC)
 

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You can get commendable mixing results using a wide variety of speakers (indeed, as people do), so long as the speakers can reproduce the effective audible range. If your $25 computer (or other) speakers can only reproduce mid range frequencies, then you will struggle, because no amount of adjustment will adjust what is not present.
 
Snowman999 said:
When I went to Sam Ash, I asked for something good and affordable. This is one of the sets they recommended. I mentioned they sound great for listening to vinyl, because if someone were looking for an affordable set of speakers for a system, these are definitely worth it.

The studio I used to record at had a pair of speakers about the same size as the 20/20, and a massive PA set in each corner. As we'd mix he'd switch back and forth from each to be sure everything sounded right. Of course Elvis once recorded on his 24 track console when it was in TN. Even though he had excellent equipment and he was a complete pro, he'd still send us home with a cassette each night to try out on every sound system we had.

Once you've used a certain set of speakers long enough, and have heard the mixes on other speakers, you get to know how you have to adjust to balance the sound.

In the end, if you know what you're doing (I know I don't), you can mix on a set of $25 computer speakers.



When something sounds good, it just sounds good. I don't change anything till it breaks.
Click to expand...

I did edit the post you quoted. I meant that I still use the TR8's as reference as I learn the new monitors. They are night and day difference in clarity and translation. But I like my old friend too. :)
 
.."reproduce the effective audible range"

That may be only one note at a time, but it is a start. Difficult music in most any range will effect all the other stuff trying to be reproduced by the driver. One note is hard enough and as it's vibrating you want another : ) Certain type of music will have difficult areas. The more drivers there are, the less confusing the targeted range will be - that's mostly cone/dome type drivers where mass makes a difference
 
Our own Massive Master says; "you can't mix what you can't hear"

Just saying, take it for what it's worth.
:D
 
Well, that's what made ns10 popular with the Rebel Forces : ) That little folded white piece of paper that climbs like a banshee
 
RFR said:
Our own Massive Master says; "you can't mix what you can't hear"

Just saying, take it for what it's worth.
:D
Click to expand...

Yeah...but can't I EQ the shit out of the monitors so I CAN hear it...? ;)

Been doing a bunch of A/B with the old/new monitors...and I use to think the old ones were damn decent, and they do have specs that show they are flat....and now with the new ones, I'm hearing things I rarely did on the old ones, and the old ones still sound "good" when I play music through them.

I'm actually shocked at how much better the new monitors sound...and I don't mean for listening, I mean for mixing.
Already I've been making tweaks because I'm hearing the harshness of a cymbal that wasn't obvious before...or the way a rhythm guitar is doubling up the mid-lows on a word or two in the vocals...etc.
This is stuff I've listened to a thousand times...and I'm now hearing things that I couldn't before.
So...revealing all the mix elements and how they interact is certainly important, IMO...or it certainly makes things easier than guessing at what's really there, and having to check your mixes on 5 other systems so you can find all these things because your main monitors are not revealing them to you.
 
I think most people do that because they either haven't learned their monitors...or they haven't been able to learn them because the monitors don't tell the truth....so then let's check the mix in the car, the stereo, the computer, the iPod...etc.

One of the big selling points of my new monitors was that pretty much everyone agreed on one thing...their mixes translated very well, and with ease...so no need for guesstimating and multi-checking in order to feel good about your mix.
Sure, everyone plays their mix on other systems when it's done...but if you are doing that in order to get your mixing straight...that's a problem with the monitors and/or your room.
 
miroslav said:
I think most people do that because they either haven't learned their monitors...or they haven't been able to learn them because the monitors don't tell the truth....so then let's check the mix in the car, the stereo, the computer, the iPod...etc.

One of the big selling points of my new monitors was that pretty much everyone agreed on one thing...their mixes translated very well, and with ease...so no need for guesstimating and multi-checking in order to feel good about your mix.
Sure, everyone plays their mix on other systems when it's done...but if you are doing that in order to get your mixing straight...that's a problem with the monitors and/or your room.
Click to expand...

You are just now working with different materials, but the drivers are still fairly conventional - though highly developed. Up top you can have domes of silk, plastic, ceramic, all the fancy metals, and even less massive emitters like on the Adam, phenolic ring, paper cone, horn driven, etc.. Materials will make a difference in the dimensional aspects of sound.

There was the old Speaker Lab motto; : Speakers without a horn, are like a Owl without a hoot". hahaha
 
I think one problem as well with mixing, is people not checking in mono.

Sitting in the perfect sweetspot, and mixing for 'perfect stereo' can be misleading. It doesn't mean it will translate.
How many people listen to music in the direct center of the two speakers ? It to some degree always collapses to mono or one channel.

Eq things, phase issues etc, can be masked by being in stereo.

Nowadays the only time most people listen to something in the sweet spot is in a home theater environment. The picture on the screen keeps them centered.
 
Where I sit most of the day, only the left speaker is on most of the time. Maybe with some frilly stuff up top - like on John Klemmers Touch, or, Aja -type stuff will I switch to stereo.
 
Oh good lord... Everyone just stop with this already.

Miro is right. There is truth in the fact that monitors that have true clarity will allow one to actually hear what they are mixing. Done. That is a proven fact.

And yes, everyone listens on 'other systems' meaning car speakers/home stereo systems/whatever... But there is no constant basis for this other than our personal 'alternative' listening sources. We make our own personal judgments of how things translate based on 'our' and possibly friends systems. So what does that tell us?

To counter the fact that monitor speakers that give more clarity is a bad thing is just silly. Not speaking to anyone here but it has been inferred.

There is much to be said about checking a mix in mono, but in no way would I mix in mono just to strangle what I was looking to produce in a stereo project. In fact I rarely even care about how a mono mix sounds myself because I do not record songs that will be played in a situation where a listener is slightly askew from the center position. Their bad if not listening right. My music will not be played on a mono system so I could care less.

Yeah, things can be masked/widened in a stereo mix, but that is kind of the idea right?


Sorry RFR, not stabbing but 'Home theater environment'? Ok, now you are talking about 6 different channels of audio. Place that all in mono and see how the movie experience is...Still works from the left side of a real theater correct?

Even with the small space in a car audio system, it sounds way better with a stereo mix, even if the stereo field is askew by being in the driver seat or passenger seat. I just don't get the idea that checking a mix in mono has relevance unless someone is doing something really stupid.

And most people nowadays listen in headphones or earbuds, so yeah, their heads are off, but their ears are centered.

Sorry for the vent but come on, this horse is beaten. Not even a reason to argue...
 
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