Speaker type and placement in small/moderate studio

Dans Klimkowski

New member
Hi, first time here, please let me know if i've forgotten to write/include anything. i’m setting up a studio in a now empty room in a residential house and looking for advice with how to set up the audio, specifically where is the best place to put speakers and what would be the best speakers for the job. Picture with dimensions at the bottom. Would appreciate any input you could offer!


The studio is going to be used to record both video and audio, mostly for music but also for some non-musical skits and youtube shows, but i’m mostly concerned about the music audio for now. When i record video here, i use green screens for almost everything, so i have 2 10 ft green screens surrounding the area which i will play in (see the picture for a floorplan of how i’m planning to have it set up so far). Cameras are set up around the computer workstation and in the middle of the room aiming towards the green screens.

I play multiple instruments, mostly guitar and keyboard, so these will be set up in the green screen area. There will be a midi drum kit somewhere on the other side of the room. I sing often while playing these instruments and will have at least two microphones set up- one condenser mic for singing at the keyboard, and one shotgun mic aimed at where i’ll play guitar. (specific models of mics shown at bottom. and where i’m planning to set them up is shown in the picture attached at the bottom.)

Here are four questions i am trying to figure out:


1. Is it possible to completely avoid feedback issues in this room? I’ve set up this studio in three rooms before this, and all of them were smaller (around 10x15 max), and i’ve had ALOT of feedback issues in each, which have prevented me from playing the way i want to. Part of the problem may have been that i was using a little keyboard amp as a main speaker that probably wasn’t good enough (it is a Behringer KT108). While this room is bigger and i know that is a good thing, i don’t know too much about audio room engineering/acoustics and don’t know if this room is big enough for a proper setup. So i am wondering if i will be able to say goodbye to the feedback in this room finally or if it will still be an issue. Also wondering if the tilted walls shown in the picture would affect this?

2. What is the best type of speaker for this set up? I’ve looked into studio monitors, amps, and PA’s and not sure what the best way to go is. I play pop, folk, rock mostly. I’d like for the speakers to be able to produce good sounds for all instruments- including the drums, electric guitar, keyboard synthesizers, and vocal effects. Could one speaker handle these well or Would it be much better to get multiple speakers for different instruments? Sometimes i like to play pretty loud, but the speakers don’t need to be able to blast music at very high volumes. The KT 108 keyboard amp has mostly been fine as far as volume goes really, it just seems to be very reactive to feedback (though it could be the current room size/setup ) and the sound gets very muddled. Budget is an issue- would prefer not to spend more than 200-300 dollars, but willing to spend more if it will make a big difference.

3. Where should i set up the speakers? In which direction?I will mostly be in the green screen area and computer area while listening. I am setting up a looping system so i can jump between instruments and loop them together, so hearing the audio well from this area is important (and being able to do it without headphones is important too). As far as i understand, aiming the speakers away from where i am playing is the best way to avoid feedback, but i am wondering how that will work when i want to hear the audio that i am looping while playing it. I’m open to aiming the instruments and microphones in different ways to get better audio setup, as long as they are in the green screen area.

4. Should i acoustically treat the room in any way? What way? The green screens are a light fabric, so they may dampen sound a bit but not much.

Thanks so much for your help! Let me know if there’s any more details i can provide!


PICTURE OF INTENDED FLOORPLAN
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1tzddwsri...26.54.png?dl=0


shotgun mic : https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic...ca+shotgun+mic
(i am using a shotgun mic to allow me to make video recordings without the mic being in the shot)

condenser mic : https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-C-1...hone+condenser
 
A keyboard amp is not a suitable vocal monitor.

There is a difference between studio monitors, vocal (stage) monitors, keyboard amps, etc...

Stage monitors usually need extensive eqing to keep the mics from feeding back. The better and flatter the monitors are, the less eq is generally needed.

Studio monitors are for mixing and usually don't have the power or throw to be used as stage monitors

Keyboard amps are for amplifying keyboards, when you don't have stage monitors. It wont have the proper tonality to be used as stage monitors for vocals and other miced up sources.
 
I'd have to ask: if you're in a recording environment, why are you using loudspeakers at all? This is what headphones are for.

Speakers are great for mixing or leisure listening, but if you're recording with sensitive microphones, you've gotta close off those ear holes!
 
Actually, re-reading the post... You need monitors like a PA system. The trick to not getting feedback is not routing the mic into the monitors.

I was in a studio that had a playback system in the recording rooms. However, one of the rooms was huge (think full orchestra sized room) and the other room was designed in such a way that, if you put the mic in the right spot, it was in a cancellation zone and couldn't hear the playback speaker.

In smaller rooms, this can start to be an issue. You might want to record the parts, and then do the video later.
 
Your comments about looping would lead me to believe you want the previously-recorded tracks playing loud enough that when you move to a new instrument, you can still hear them well while adding the new instrument part, right? Are you DIing the instruments or miking the amps? Mics and speakers/monitors are going to give you feedback unless placement is done well and volume kept down. And you're going to get bleed.
I'd recommend looking at some in-ear monitors for your recording use - this way you can hear what has been recorded, but it will not be heard over any speakers, so no feedback or bleed.
 
Problem. Studio monitors won't go very loud or/and handle drums unless they are expensive (stick a zero on that budget!)

Some PA speakers are of very good audio quality, almost monitor grade but again pricey and you would need a 500Wish per channel amp to drive them.

As the Top Men have said, this is a job for headphones or IEM.

Dave.
 
IEMs - it isn't just feedback, but colouration which happens before feedback. ANY of the tracks in your mic channels means your editing is extremely limited. The biggest issue for me is reducing spill.

There are things you can try, but they are all blunt tools.

I had a recent job where I needed to produce huge numbers of harmony vocals, and the lines were so difficult, I needed to do it in phrases - two or four bars at a go, over and over again. Headphones didn't let me pitch properly as the mix was busy and they were all my own voice. I couldn't tell if it was me live or me recorded in the headphones.

I set up an anglepoise mic stand, and an RE320 bang in the middle between the speakers with my computer keyboard where I could not move my head. I swapped the polarity on one speaker, and ran everything in mono. The mic and speaker positions were fixed, and the spill dropped amazingly. I'd tried this a few times before, but small movements wrecked it. This time - with everything fixed, it worked.

In your rooms, I can't see this working, so IEMs all the way.

One thing - why not paint your rooms green, and scrap the screens - they always wrinkle and get in the way anyway? You could put infinity curves on corners too - which would make your studio much nicer and less tricky to video in?
 
Thank you everybody for your replies, really appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts! btw sorry for taking a while to respond, has been a bit crazy with the move.

I’ve read thru all the responses and have done some research on IEM’s (thanks for the suggestions- i had never heard of these! ) , so i’ll write a couple things up top here then have a few responses to individual replies following:

- what are the differences between headphones and IEMs? is it just in-ear or over-ear? I’ve read some reviews where people say they are comparable, but they both look like headphones to me. I often play acoustic guitar and the feeling of playing and singing without headphones is often a lot better- i dont know why, but hearing the sound through headphones often seems worse than hearing it with nothing between me and the instruments. And they get uncomfortable. Do the IEMs have a different feeling of playing with than headphones?

- I’m seeing good reviews for IEMs on amazon for 40$ (MEE audio M6 PRO Universal-Fit Noise-Isolating Musician's In-Ear Monitors with Detachable Cables) and also seeing IEM sound systems that go up to 1k. Would something like the 40$ ones be good to use?

- Could there be some balance between IEM/heaphones use and speakers use? Like different situations in which the different methods of monitoring can be used? I could basically break it down like this:
When playing any instrument but NOT using microphone, use the speakers.
When playing any instrument when using microphone, use the IEM/headphones.
Would this make sense?
And if this is the case, what would be a better speaker to use- studio monitors or PA’s?

@farview
Stage monitors are PA systems, is this correct?
So you think it would be better to have stage monitors?

The trick to not getting feedback is not routing the mic into the monitors.

I was in a studio that had a playback system in the recording rooms. However, one of the rooms was huge (think full orchestra sized room) and the other room was designed in such a way that, if you put the mic in the right spot, it was in a cancellation zone and couldn't hear the playback speaker.

In smaller rooms, this can start to be an issue. You might want to record the parts, and then do the video later.

I’d much prefer to be able to record video and audio at the same time. Any ideas on how i could set it up so that feedback is not routing the mic into the monitors in this room? Or input on if this is possible?

@Tadpui
Using speakers is a lot better for me partly for comfort and part video reasons.

comfort- i’ve been recording music with over-the-ear headphones for past couples years and after playing for hours, it just hurts my ears and is a distraction. Its also sometimes annoying to jump to different instruments and have a wire that might get tripped on

video- using the green screens i try to make some of the visuals in different environments where big headphones would take away from the shot

the accuracy of the music is important and i know it would be best with headphones (and in some cases i’ll still use headphones), but these other factors are more important to me sometimes

@mjbphotos
Your comments about looping would lead me to believe you want the previously-recorded tracks playing loud enough that when you move to a new instrument, you can still hear them well while adding the new instrument part, right?

Yes, though i plan to integrate volume control in the looper, so i can adjust the volume specific tracks/layers on the go and get the right approximate mix to add new instruments and hear what i want,

Are you DIing the instruments or miking the amps?

I’m sorry i dont know what this means. All instruments are connected via midi usb or guitar cables (except vocals and a classical guitar which are recorded with mics)

@ecc83

Problem. Studio monitors won't go very loud or/and handle drums unless they are expensive (stick a zero on that budget!)

Could the speaker setup work with all the instruments other than drums? I dont play drums as often, and if its possible to use just headphones with those but speakers with other instruments, that could work.

rob aylestone


One thing - why not paint your rooms green, and scrap the screens - they always wrinkle and get in the way anyway? You could put infinity curves on corners too - which would make your studio much nicer and less tricky to video in?

this is true and thanks for the infinity curves recommendation i had not heard of those. I am using the screens because there are two windows now and they are going over them (in front of black out curtains), but will remember this for the next time i upgrade studios.
 
Yes, stage monitors would be appropriate, as would a PA system. Studio monitors will not work for this unless they are the far field kind, which will cost you about $10,000 a speaker. Standard near field monitors, like most people here tend to use will not be able to move enough air to do the job.

In ear monitors will actually be the right answer for when you are actually recording an instrument and video taping it at the same time. Stage monitors or PA type speakers will be the right answer if you are video taping something that is set to music, but isn't being performed and recorded. (Dancing to pre-recorded music)

The $40 in-ears could work, but the quality would surely be shit. The $1k versions will be awesome and require someone to take a mold of your ear, but those are only worth it if you are in a touring band. I found the lower cost Shure IEM's to work just fine when I was drumming and needed to do shows to a click.
 
Back
Top