Sound Absorption... HELP?

emergencyexit

New member
I am a 19 year old song writer/pianist/bassist who has been recording in a suburb outside of boston for 4+ years. 3 years ago I built 5 bass traps via ethan winers web site in my 40x30 live room, and we mixed in a concrete 15x15 box covered in the corners and all the direct reflecting spots with OC-703 rigid fiberglass. We had a budget at that point considering our age and lack of time for work aside from high school. Because of our location we had no need for isolation aside from the concrete mixing box (which i now understand is a terrible location for mixing)

I am going to Berklee next year and moving into the bottom apartment in a three story Building in Brighton. Unfortunately I believe the building lays on the end of two identical connected Apartment complexes owned by different landlords. The place is a spacious 3 bedroom with a huge living room and kitchen. I don't know the dimensions yet. The drummer is moving in with me and would like to be able to practice at reasonable hours. I'm sure that playing during the day will be fine with the neighbors but I would like to tone down on as much of the noise as possible. Luckily the walls of his room only touch other walls in our apartment or the outside of the building. So basically we have no side neighbors. We are thinking about converting his room into a fo-drum booth. Obviously its not a real booth because we can't do anything permanent like double the drywall or build a room with in a room. We do have a decent amount of money to spend though.

I'm no genius when it comes to acoustics but I believe that the most cost effective solution would be to try to get rid of most of the low frequencies via bass traps. I figure if I build a riser for the drums that is just a 5x6x1 sealed reverberating box and place 3" 703 about half way between the top and bottom that should do a decent amount. Essentially it would be a huge bass trap for him to play on. The box would be raised above the floor with rubber feet. I will also be sealing the back to the 5 bass traps I have and placing them in back of this drum riser a few inches away from the back wall in his room. My third Idea is to hang 3" 703 about half a foot from the ceiling. I believe the room is a 15x20 and I know that the drummer will be willing to give up at least half of it for sound absorption My question is, could anyone suggest a better method for this? Do I need the drum riser or is it kind of useless with the other traps and the dropped ceiling? Does someone have a completely different idea that may work better? Am I being a complete idiot?:o

Since I do not live there yet I do not have any further information about the place. I just would like to start building soon while I still have a place to do it.

Thank you,
Ben
 
I think you're pretty much on track. I would not seal the back of the bass traps you have.
 
Thanks apl. I took a look at John's site and realized that I did most of my research there 3 years ago when I made my original bass traps. The only problem with his site is that he mostly offers permanent solutions. I CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOOSE MY SECURITY DEPOSIT. So I can not afford to do anything permanent. I am wondering however, would it benefit me to include cinderblocks in some part of this drum riser? I know they are extremely dense and in most cases the only way to fully isolate in a multi unit building.

Please help me out?

Ben
 
I really want to help you out.. but unfortunately there's no way to change the laws of physics.

I think that setting up the drums as you described, might help some, but it is in no way going to soundproof the room.

Bass traps are to treat the acoustics in a room, and really don't do much to sound proof.

If I'm getting this right, your primary concern is soundproofing the area to be able to not disturb you neighbors? I'm not trying to be negative, but i just don't think there is a magic/cheap/inexpensive/non-permanent solution to what you are trying to do.

http://www.acoustics101.com/basics.asp

There is a link to a good pdf booklet at that site, and it covers a lot on soundproofing.

Might need to start thinking of different options..... electric drums? a practice space elsewhere?
 
Norris is right. Isolation and treatment are two different things.

Something to keep in mind: Building a drum booth that has satisfactory isolation requires a lot of mass. Also, it has to be airtight. Think of it like a fishtank - it doesn't matter where the hole is or how big it is. It is going to leak.

Bass trapping will help the drums sound good in the room.

Bass trapping will do nothing to isolate your neighbors from your drums.
 
Bass trapping will do nothing to isolate your neighbors from your drums.

If you have a source of given sound power in a reverberant room, the sound pressure level will be higher than the same source in an absorbant room. The transmission out of the room is a function of the sound pressure level, so adding absorption will have a marginal helpful effect on what gets through the wall.
 
I'm not looking to completely isolate as i know it is impossible with non-permanent solutions. I believe I stated this before. I am not looking for it to be cheap, as I also stated. I am willing to construct something.

With that said I have been doing a decent amount of reading from my dad's MIT physics textbook. From what I understand the apartment is a bottom floor membrane in a three story building. That wooden membrane is split into almost 6 equal parts (2x3). One of the middle two rooms will be used for playing drums. I would like to reduce the waves enough to make it tolerable during the day when there are no laws about playing. I think cement or something with a lot of mass (possibly cinderblocks) could take care of anything transmitting into the floor. The rectangle traps would be for mid frequencies as well as mid-low into the ground. Ethan's traps surrounding for more low mid absorption. And a floating ceiling. I think that may do a decent amount. It's a shit load of thick 703 to do nothing and a good amount of concrete. I understand its not airtight from the houses original membrane but give me a brake I can't do anything to that extreme... and it will at least sound a lot nicer.

No one but APL has at least read what I am trying to do or what I can't do before writing something.

Thank you for helping
Ben
 
Sounds like you already know what you are doing.

Apl is the only one who agreed with you. is that why you think he is the only one who read your post?

Looks like you are looking for validation and not information or opinions.

Good luck.
 
Thank you Dconnell,

I had thought of building my own isolation booth. These models look great but I have no idea how well they work. My question is would something like this be better to build? Would I be able to possibly get better results for less money? Although I have no budget I'm not trying to throw money away.

Ben
 
I'm not looking to completely isolate as i know it is impossible with non-permanent solutions. I believe I stated this before. I am not looking for it to be cheap, as I also stated. I am willing to construct something.

With that said I have been doing a decent amount of reading from my dad's MIT physics textbook. From what I understand the apartment is a bottom floor membrane in a three story building. That wooden membrane is split into almost 6 equal parts (2x3). One of the middle two rooms will be used for playing drums. I would like to reduce the waves enough to make it tolerable during the day when there are no laws about playing. I think cement or something with a lot of mass (possibly cinderblocks) could take care of anything transmitting into the floor. The rectangle traps would be for mid frequencies as well as mid-low into the ground. Ethan's traps surrounding for more low mid absorption. And a floating ceiling. I think that may do a decent amount. It's a shit load of thick 703 to do nothing and a good amount of concrete. I understand its not airtight from the houses original membrane but give me a brake I can't do anything to that extreme... and it will at least sound a lot nicer.

No one but APL has at least read what I am trying to do or what I can't do before writing something.

Thank you for helping
Ben


First, let me say that I read everything you wrote, and I'm a little insulted by your assertion otherwise. You asked for opinions, and you're going to get them. What you are not going to get is a bunch of gladhanding and rote congratulations.

You have not thought this through.

Ben, does your dad's physics textbook say anything about structural integrity?

The amount of mass you will need to add to make a difference is significant. Think about it before you add tonnage to an upper story room and risk catastrophic collapse. I would consult an engineer before I constructed anything like that.

Keep in mind that doing something like that could be a violation of building codes in your area, and that an accident that results from such activity will likely not be covered by any insurance. Do you think your landlord would approve?

As much as I would love to "give you a brake", I'm not going to lie to you.

You are not going to achieve significant isolation, and you are going to waste a lot of money.

If you are unlucky, somebody could get evicted, hurt or killed.
 
If you have a source of given sound power in a reverberant room, the sound pressure level will be higher than the same source in an absorbant room. The transmission out of the room is a function of the sound pressure level, so adding absorption will have a marginal helpful effect on what gets through the wall.

Well, he could also put a freakin' couch in the room. That would also have a marginally helpful effect. We're talking about acoustic drums, buddy.
 
Well, he could also put a freakin' couch in the room. That would also have a marginally helpful effect. We're talking about acoustic drums, buddy.

Yeah, I know. If he treats the room the drums his neighbors hear won't be as loud and will sound better, lol.

But, yeah, it's hard to isolate it. We can hear our neighbors drum and we're in separate houses.
 
First, let me say that I read everything you wrote, and I'm a little insulted by your assertion otherwise. You asked for opinions, and you're going to get them. What you are not going to get is a bunch of gladhanding and rote congratulations.

You have not thought this through.

Ben, does your dad's physics textbook say anything about structural integrity?

The amount of mass you will need to add to make a difference is significant. Think about it before you add tonnage to an upper story room and risk catastrophic collapse. I would consult an engineer before I constructed anything like that.

Keep in mind that doing something like that could be a violation of building codes in your area, and that an accident that results from such activity will likely not be covered by any insurance. Do you think your landlord would approve?

As much as I would love to "give you a brake", I'm not going to lie to you.

You are not going to achieve significant isolation, and you are going to waste a lot of money.

If you are unlucky, somebody could get evicted, hurt or killed.

Well proof you didn't read. NOT AN UPPER STORY APARTMENT! NOT LOOKING FOR COMPLETE ISOLATION. I understand I can not get results like that due to my conditions. I AM NOT GOING TO BUILD ANYTHING IN THE FUCKING APARTMENT. Already said that, it would be nice if you would read it.

I'm not looking for you to tell me I'm doing a great job. I'm looking for solutions and you have offered none in terms of acoustic drums. You seem to only be telling me that I should give up and throw my fucking drummer and his drum set out the window. You are being negative before even trying to help AT ALL.

Now i will repeat myself. I know I can not isolate the drums. I KNOW I CAN NOT ISOLATE THE DRUMS! I KNOW I CAN NOT ISOLATE THEM. jeez.

The facts:

The building is brick on the outside. I'm sure bricks have at least a little mass. Actually the absorption coefficients on john's site say they absorb quite a bit. It is a first story apartment. It is the only one on it's floor. NO SIDE NEIGHBORS. I am trying to make it so that the upstairs neighbors don't kill me when he practices during the day. I am living at my parents house and can build something here to move there when I move the other furniture. ITS NOT ILLEGAL TO MOVE FURNITURE INTO AN APARTMENT. I am not going to make anything I can't move WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL HAVE THE MOST POSSIBLE ISOLATION. I'm not fucking 40 years old with my own place and I am not running a business out of this apartment so I have no need for complete isolation. And I am certainly not hiding this from the neighbors. Supercreep you have no desire to help. You do however have a desire to be as negative as possible with out understanding the situation after overlooking posts... CLEARLY. Stay away from this thread asshole.

With that said, I looked at those Clearsonic rooms. They are made of plexi glass and I doubt that they will isolate anything being so light and skinny. It doesn't even look like they seal. Assuming I am wrong however there is no way that micing a drumset will sound anything in one of those. Does anyone own one and would they tell me if I am completely wrong about them. $2000 is a lot to spend on something that won't work at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: apl
I'm not looking for you to tell me I'm doing a great job. I'm looking for solutions and you have offered none in terms of acoustic drums. You seem to only be telling me that I should give up and throw my fucking drummer and his drum set out the window. You are being negative before even trying to help AT ALL.

Calm down, little man.

emergencyexit said:
I am living at my parents house and can build something here to move there when I move the other furniture. ITS NOT ILLEGAL TO MOVE FURNITURE INTO AN APARTMENT. I am not going to make anything I can't move WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL HAVE THE MOST POSSIBLE ISOLATION. I'm not fucking 40 years old with my own place and I am not running a business out of this apartment so I have no need for complete isolation. And I am certainly not hiding this from the neighbors.

Great.

emergencyexit said:
Supercreep you have no desire to help. You do however have a desire to be as negative as possible with out understanding the situation after overlooking posts... CLEARLY. Stay away from this thread asshole.

Sorry I misunderstood your post.

I was trying to help, as evidenced by me appearing in your thread and addressing your questions in the first place.

I'm sure everything will work out great. Good luck.
 
I was reading through my dad's (the President, Obama) Harvard books lately and it said, "relax, man". :p

You're in that unique situation for people here where you have a bit of time and money to make something but no real ability to change locations, right? Anyways, try your idea as long as it's safe, and let us know what happens.
 
Seriously...

With what you are suggesting regrading adding to the acoustic isolation capabilites of a temporary college apartment, you'd really be better off getting some good electronic drums, some isolation headphones, and a good set of monitors (to let others hear and impress chicks).

That way, when the neighbors are away you can crank em, and when they're not, slip on the headphones, or turn down and everyones happy.
 
Back
Top