bluesfordan
Member
Do you think bookcases full of magazines and books act as bass traps? Because I have about 16 feet of shelves crammed with pulp fiber objects in my music room. Or if they do, would they have to be in the corners?
Silly question but I gotta ask ...
- Thread starter bluesfordan
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keith.rogers
Well-known member
Assuming they're not made of concrete they'll definitely do some trapping. How much depends to some extent on the depth of paper and hardness of the exposed covers and shelf back, but better than a bunch of foam!
They'll be more effective in the corners, floor to ceiling, because that's where a lot of the bass energy collects. (Don't ask me why.)
They'll be more effective in the corners, floor to ceiling, because that's where a lot of the bass energy collects. (Don't ask me why.)
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
Heavy, big and bulky things are always useful.
Maybe not quite as efficient as purpose-built bass traps, but they will help.
Maybe not quite as efficient as purpose-built bass traps, but they will help.
cavedog101
Well-known member
Different heights and depths on every shelf. Hardbacks with lots of pages. Second hand stores have lots of books.
You know. this is a subject that has always irked me. Sound treatment
Yeah, it's important, yeah it's good to have..... But still.
You have all these home recording Nazis preaching about proper bass traps, diffusers, panels etc, etc Yet they've never made any money off of music. Maybe a nickel and dime here and there, but never have they supported themselves doing music.
On the other hand I've seen plenty of studios in studio tours, and in real life, of Pro guys with NO visible panels or bass traps in sight.( maybe hidden) Pro guys who get gigs producing ,mixing, ect.
The studios ARE however filled up with everything from racks of gear, to guitars all over, photos all over the place with glass in the frames, knick knacks, bookcases, junk, couches with pillows. Ect.
All this stuff helps to control sound.
Think back to some apt you rented and how hollow and echoey it sounded when you looked at it compared to how it sounded once you filled it up with all your furniture and stuff.
Physical objects in the space make a huge difference.
I myself, don't get too anal about sound treatment and those who do, get on my fecking nerves.
Yeah, it's important, yeah it's good to have..... But still.
You have all these home recording Nazis preaching about proper bass traps, diffusers, panels etc, etc Yet they've never made any money off of music. Maybe a nickel and dime here and there, but never have they supported themselves doing music.
On the other hand I've seen plenty of studios in studio tours, and in real life, of Pro guys with NO visible panels or bass traps in sight.( maybe hidden) Pro guys who get gigs producing ,mixing, ect.
The studios ARE however filled up with everything from racks of gear, to guitars all over, photos all over the place with glass in the frames, knick knacks, bookcases, junk, couches with pillows. Ect.
All this stuff helps to control sound.
Think back to some apt you rented and how hollow and echoey it sounded when you looked at it compared to how it sounded once you filled it up with all your furniture and stuff.
Physical objects in the space make a huge difference.
I myself, don't get too anal about sound treatment and those who do, get on my fecking nerves.
witzendoz
Senior Member
Well, i'll get on your nerves, the pro studios you talk about have been designed from the ground up. All the room sizes are built to spec ratios, sound treatment is incorporated into the room finishing, and yes there are hidden bass traps of which you don't need as much of because the room has been designed properly in the first place. For example my studio has hidden bass traps behind wall panels.
Most people here have less then ideal rooms of sizes they are stuck with, to fix these rooms you need to put things in like bass traps, mid range absorbers, etc, yes furnishings can help with the acoustics, but you need to know if the top end is being sucked out when maybe the bass is not , etc. If you want to mix and record but not be too anal go ahead.
So you have been told by a recording Nazi.
Alan.
Most people here have less then ideal rooms of sizes they are stuck with, to fix these rooms you need to put things in like bass traps, mid range absorbers, etc, yes furnishings can help with the acoustics, but you need to know if the top end is being sucked out when maybe the bass is not , etc. If you want to mix and record but not be too anal go ahead.
So you have been told by a recording Nazi.
Alan.
Haha! I know that many rooms are built from the ground up. I have myself built one.
Room within a room, hidden bass traps, non parallel walls, angled windows with double glass decoupled from each other, etc.
I just felt like ranting for a minute. Is that OK my Nazi friend?
Room within a room, hidden bass traps, non parallel walls, angled windows with double glass decoupled from each other, etc.
I just felt like ranting for a minute. Is that OK my Nazi friend?
witzendoz
Senior Member
Actually I don't fit into the home recording nazi mould, I do make money from music, not enough to give up the day job LOL, but that from Playing, Live sound & recording. I have a studio because I already have the gear and the building from years ago when studios did get work, so the studio just gets that couple of bookings a month to tick it over and my band(s) rehearse there. I need the workshop out back of the studio to store my live gear as I live in a 1 bed apartment so no gear goes there.
Alan.
Alan.
witzendoz
Senior Member
bluesfordan
Member
Is there much difference between bass traps near the ceiling, where there is usually more open space, versus say bass traps at floor level where there is often furniture and equipment? Or should corner bass traps try to be floor to ceiling?
I dare you to find any previous posts in my history where I'm telling people not to treat their rooms..
I made a rant yesterday in an admittedly trollish fashion and here we are.. it worked. I stirred the Hornet's nest.
There IS however a serious aspect to my post. Talent trumps stuff every time.
Or should I say Talent trumps Treatment everytime.
Some people value the tools more than the art and skill. And THAT is wrong.
(Imho)
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Steenamaroo
...
There's no rule that a room has to be treated but it stands to reason that it should sound good.
If a room large room full of gear has a desirable live sound, then so be it.
Most of our bedrooms, sheds, and living rooms don't.
There'll be no shortage of examples of great talent in a bad sounding room or using cheap gear and that's great, but it's no yardstick.
If a room large room full of gear has a desirable live sound, then so be it.
Most of our bedrooms, sheds, and living rooms don't.
There'll be no shortage of examples of great talent in a bad sounding room or using cheap gear and that's great, but it's no yardstick.
One example comes to mind. Allegedly Bruce Springsteen recorded Nebraska on a cassette 4 track in his kitchen. Or some such untreated room in his house.
But.....I'd be willing to bet it was mixed and mastered in a very acoustically designed mixing and mastering studio.
Overall, I believe that one can record in a space that 'sounds' good or has some desireable character, though untreated. But mixng is best done in a treated space. You would prefer neutral over 'colored'. The treatment is to accomplish neutrality.
But.....I'd be willing to bet it was mixed and mastered in a very acoustically designed mixing and mastering studio.
Overall, I believe that one can record in a space that 'sounds' good or has some desireable character, though untreated. But mixng is best done in a treated space. You would prefer neutral over 'colored'. The treatment is to accomplish neutrality.
There is a factor that is often overlooked when "Room Treatment" is mentioned and that is that 'RT' will be different (or maybe not even required) depending upon whether you are RECORDING in said room or monitoring with a view to 'improving' the mix.
To take am extreme situation. If ALL you ever do is sing into a mic you are not really concerned about bass traps since you will not excite much below about 150Hz (Paul Robeson tributes aside!) . Yes, if the room is small and 'honky' (I am a deathly pale limey so I can say that!) you should use duvets or something more sophisticated to kill room effect but bass traps you don't need. The same logic applies when monitoring the results.
Monitoring, mixing a range of instruments in a room is whole other matter and the results will be grossly affected BY the room.
On a slightly different tack... The vast majority of "pro" studios have isolated recording and monitoring areas. 'Studio' and 'Control Room' but it ain't cast in stone. Tonscheune Oleak (SoS April '18) is a totally open plan studio and seems to have done quite well!
Dave.
To take am extreme situation. If ALL you ever do is sing into a mic you are not really concerned about bass traps since you will not excite much below about 150Hz (Paul Robeson tributes aside!) . Yes, if the room is small and 'honky' (I am a deathly pale limey so I can say that!) you should use duvets or something more sophisticated to kill room effect but bass traps you don't need. The same logic applies when monitoring the results.
Monitoring, mixing a range of instruments in a room is whole other matter and the results will be grossly affected BY the room.
On a slightly different tack... The vast majority of "pro" studios have isolated recording and monitoring areas. 'Studio' and 'Control Room' but it ain't cast in stone. Tonscheune Oleak (SoS April '18) is a totally open plan studio and seems to have done quite well!
Dave.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I dare you to find any previous posts in my history where I'm telling people not to treat their rooms..
I made a rant yesterday in an admittedly trollish fashion and here we are.. it worked. I stirred the Hornet's nest.
There IS however a serious aspect to my post. Talent trumps stuff every time.
Or should I say Talent trumps Treatment everytime.
Some people value the tools more than the art and skill. And THAT is wrong.
(Imho)
No, you didn't exactly say that, but your rant could be taken by a newbie in that AT is not necessary.
Well, exactly. If you're not using the space for mixing, then AT becomes LESS of an issue, but it still depends on what you're tracking. My vocals picked up bad room sound when recording in all the various methods I tried (before traps added) - some were better than others, some (like singing/sweating/suffocating under a big quilt) were less useful.