Room Layout Advice

R

Rick Finsta

New member
I'm putting together a small home studio, 99% of the recording/mixing here will be acoustic guitar and vocals. I have already sourced the Owens Corning 703 and will be building 6" thick bass traps for some of the corners. I can only populate two of the floor-to-ceiling corners due to a window and doorway very close to one end of the room. I am also planning on using the 703 material to make broadband absorbers at reflection points for the listening position, and I *might* add diffusers if anyone thinks I may benefit (from a recording or listening standpoint). I am planning on making 2" thick panels that fit into the windows, and hanging some mass loaded vinyl in front of that to try and kill some of the noise going in and out, but realistically I am not expecting a ton of attenuation, I just want to try and take care of some transients from time to time (and I also will be using cardioid pattern mics for starters). I have considered making mass loaded vinyl traps that are mobile that I could simply place in front of the windows when I'm recording or mixing (since I also use my DAW PC for gaming and general use).

The room is 10.92' wide x 12.92' long x 8.25' tall, which actually turns out to be a pretty good ratio for the room modes from what I can tell.

I was also considering putting up a 4'x8' 12 gauge steel plate glued to open cell foam on the one wall where I can't put bass traps due to the door and window. I can't remember the term for these but they reportedly work very well for broadband absorption.

Using the diagram below for reference, I am planning on putting floor-to-ceiling 24" wide bass traps in the upper two corners, and then putting one 24" x 48" trap into the wall/ceiling junction at the upper end, and two 24"x48" units on the wall to ceiling junction at the lower end. The lower end door is the room entrance, and the door on the right wall is to a closet.

I am planning on putting my mixing desk at the top or bottom - since I can't put bass traps in the corners at the bottom, is this a bad choice? Am I pigeon-holed into using the top area for my desk and listening location?

I welcome answers and any other thoughts - my background is in writing, playing, performing, and live sound mixing, not in acoustics and recording!

Thanks in advance.

Studio.jpg
 
That had occurred to me - I was even thinking I could fabricate some swing-arms so the traps could just lay flat against the wall and then when I'm working I could swing them into place covering the corners; I even thought I could pulley them up to the ceiling or something like that.

I guess my number one question is should I have my desk on the solid wall or the window wall; solid wall is my preference, but if it will be a huge deal to have the door to one side then I can change plans. I don't have an exact measurement (it hadn't occurred to me until now to check) but that window at the top is very likely not centered on the wall - most things in this 80+ year old house are a little... "off."

I also don't have the room to really bring the desk out from the wall, though I suppose I could also have the desk on wheels and move it out for mixing, and move it back in for recording.
 
The other problem you may have by putting the desk on the wall to the bottom in your drawing - your points of first reflection may be at/near where the door and window are.
Whichever you decide on, you most likely will need some trapping on the front wall, too (the wall you face when sitting at our desk.
 
Thanks again for the help. I have started building the frames for the bass traps and wideband absorbers. I am going to put 6" thick OC-703 units 24" wide and 96" tall in the two top corners (behind my listening position). Then I will have two 6" thick 24"x48" corner traps on stands or hanging that I can put up during a session in the lower coners, and there will be one straddling the wall/ceiling intersection directly in front of / above the mixing position. I will have one 2" thick wideband at each first reflection point, and then one on the wall directly behind the mixing desk (at the bottom of that picture).

I will have plenty of extra OC703 so I can add more later, but this is what I was going to start off with. If I have a lot of trouble with comb filtering I have just enough room to put a 1x1.5m metal panel resonator in between the two doors and then another flat on the bottom wall by the window, which should smooth things out if the moveable bass traps are not enough.

I am also thinking of building superchunks that hang above the door and above the window to take care of that three way intersections there at least, and maybe moveable ones that sit on the floors during sessions but then stack somewhere?

I just got my MIDI controller so I'm pretty excited to get the fabric and get those panels in place so I can start recording!
 
mjbphotos said:
You can make movable traps (on 'feet', or that hang from hooks) for the 'problem' corners.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

It's all about make-shifting your way to a good setup lol.

I have poster board, thumbtacks, wall hangers, sheets, and then cardboard boxes all used in my mixing room. All my acoustic foam is detachable in huge makeshift panels and makes for a nicely treated portable mixing room :)

Any creative idea you have for treating your room is probably worth checking out!
 
Free Spirit said:
Exactly!

It's all about make-shifting your way to a good setup lol.

I have poster board, thumbtacks, wall hangers, sheets, and then cardboard boxes all used in my mixing room. All my acoustic foam is detachable in huge makeshift panels and makes for a nicely treated portable mixing room :)

Any creative idea you have for treating your room is probably worth checking out!
Click to expand...

"Acoustic foam" - second advice disqualification in two posts! :facepalm:
 
Panels are done. I've got 6X 6" thick corner traps and 3X 2" thick broadbands. I've got the OC703 and fabric for one more 2" trap which I figure I can use as a cloud if necessary.

20150525_104050.jpg

I'm still struggling with the corner trap placement but I need to source an omni mic to test the room before I start making things permanent I figure. Will walking around the room with a cardioid pattern mic be of any help whatsoever? I also considered a few SDCs with pretty flat response in an X configuration at the listening position, and then moving them around a bit to make sure I don't have issues.

ETA: Is is better to go floor-to ceiling with the corner traps behind the listening position or go one 2'x4'x6" in each corner, then one above the listening position and one on the floor/ceiling intersection behind the listening position? My idea was to cover as many of the three-way intersections as possible but if have all four corners covered at recording/listening level would be best...

Thoughts?
 
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Cover as many corners as you can as much as you can. Don't worry about measurements at this point - just LISTEN.
 
mjbphotos said:
Cover as many corners as you can as much as you can. Don't worry about measurements at this point - just LISTEN.
Click to expand...

Very good advice.

Frequency response plots/measurements nearly always look scary for real/small rooms.
 
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LOL sounds good. I have an omni mic inbound but to make things easy I will cover the two floor to ceiling corners at the back of the room (which is also where recording will take place) and then move the other two where they best take care of issues at the listening position. I will post some before/after charts just because I am a scientist and need to know.

One other question: does (most) everyone form an equilateral triangle with corner traps for efficacy, or for ease of installation, or for some other reason? I need 19" to hang traps above windows/doors but don't have the clearance. Ultimately I will likely use soffit chunk-style traps but in the meantime I was considering flattening them out a little bit.
 
Gotcha!

I got the four corner traps floor to ceiling behind the listening position last night and the difference on the low end is already audibly huge. I've still got some mid and high frequency bounce but the broadbands should fix that when I get the stands built (might do that this evening). I didn't notice the room getting deader while I was hanging the traps until I walked out into the hallway while talking to my wife and suddenly heard reverberation in my voice!

I got some quick waterfalls yesterday using a SDC at the listening position (pre-install) and they were (as expected) pretty ugly. Good news is the room matches the predictions pretty well - I have a 45Hz and 90Hz null, and plenty of comb filtering from reflections (I'm assuming that's what it means when you get peaks and valleys in the Z axis of a waterfall rather than a nice smooth dropoff) when using pink noise instead of a sweep.

The omni mic is waiting for me at home when I get there so I will get the rest of these traps up post haste, and then do a reall empty room versus treated room comparison and post the results.
 
Well I got everything together and I honestly don't think it looks awful. I'm going to try it again with my two 6" bass traps that will eventually occupy wall/ceiling intersections above the listening position and directly behind it stuck between my monitors and the wall since they are the M-Audio AV-30s and have rear facing bass ports. I will eventually replace them but they are getting me started off just fine I think. Not enough juice below 100Hz to really get a great idea of the bass trap efficacy, either, I think.

The room feels really weird - I think I've got some decent echo left in the high end but sounds are all more punctuated than before the treatment.

Waterfall%2BInitial%2BTreatment.jpg


Spectrogram%2BInitial%2BTreatment.jpg


I think I can work with it - reference material sounds a little boomy (and it looks like I've got a boost in the 100-250Hz range so that makes sense) but it could be worse! I'm hoping that will be solved with the behind-the-monitor treatment.
 
For what you're going to be recording Rick, I think you're going a little over-kill. First, I would make sure your monitor listening triangle is away from any wall. Bass traps in room corners, yes. (remember that bass frequencies are low to the floors and omni-directional) High frequencies love glass and hard surfaces to reflect off. Angle your monitoring triangle so your right or left speaker is a least 3' from any wall and the other one is about 6 1/2 '. Breaking up flat surface angles will insure cancellation of "slap back" frequencies while allowing for brightness in your upper mid to high frequencies where, a lot of life exists.

A little foam and soft fabric here and there will help to control lingering standing waves. Now, the only things you need to move around to get balanced tone results is your mikes and guitar in the "almost" center of the room. Moving your desk around shouldn't be an option if you consider this plan.

Hope this helps..
 
I really appreciate the feedback. I live in the "buy once, cry once" camp; I spent a lot of years buying cheap shit and doing things half-assed, and life is just too short. I figure one day I'll be long dead and my legacy will consist of things like "look at the design and craftsmanship on this pergola," or "wow, he took the time to gusset this roll cage properly." Part of this is the process of transforming the work and recording space for me - I can't build a proper studio space but I do want to do the best possible job with what I've got.

That said, the monitoring position will continue to be an issue, and I am considering options. I suppose there is nothing wrong with moving the monitors for mixing and then moving them back to the desk area for gaming. Nothing says the speakers need to be on either side of the desk, just that they are in an equilateral triangle with my head.

I'm hoping the 6" absorbers behind the desk work to control that low mid boost.

If nothing else this has been a great way to understand some of the principles involved, and it has allowed me to create a space in which I am really enjoying working.

Again, I do appreciate any and all feedback. Except at 4kHz under a (reflective) carnival tent trying to mix monitors for a band with waaaaay too much stage volume. THat feedback sucks, and is hard to control.
 
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