Is this room Acoustically Treatable? (pic's in post)

[FrankIV]

I’ve been given the opportunity to turn this green room into a mixing room for orchestral film score production, but is it too big to acoustically treat?

- the room is exactly 325sqft
- the main desk, monitors, etc. will be placed in the rooms 'pocket' area where the giraffe is in.
- the other half of the room will act as my bedroom to help fill the space (just a dresser, queen bed, writing desk)
- all live recordings will be done in a separate room dedicated for that purpose.
- disregard all current items occupying the room in the pics.
- I have money for the acoustic treating items (panels, rigid foams, bass traps)(some 12x12’ carpet mats for floor?)

Can the room actually be fixed? I’ll be doing serious work inside of it, I don’t want it to be ‘meh’, I want it right, or at least decently okay. If the green room is too big I can also run a thick curtain across the front of the ‘pocket’ area to reduce the space I’ll be working in, but I would really prefer to not. I’ve also considered doing a 5.1 monitor setup but wasn’t sure if it would be unwise in this room.

So, what treatment items would you use to treat the green room room, how much of it, and generally wear would you put it?? would you recommend me placing the studio items/ furniture where ive suggested??





the sketch is in exact proporsion to all the measurments. I should mention the floors are wood, but I figure a couple 12×12 rug matts will fix that. I felt the bed would work best where it is for dampening that corner of the room, but it doesn't matter please let me know.



Alternatively, there is this smaller blue room I can put only the studio in, if the green room truly cannot work. I know it would be easier to do the blue room, but it’s above a dinning room and the sound would travel through the floor at higher levels. So I really want to try and make the green room (above garage) work. –disregard all objects in blue room pic-

blue room panoramic

 

[mjbphotos]

AS a new form member, you can't attach pictures to your posts. I think you need 10 posts first. 'Composing' - what do you mean? Are you recording in the room? If so, what instruments? Are you merely mixing in the room? What monitors do you have?

Don't buy 'foam' for acoustic treatment, you want rockwool or something like OC703 or &05.

 

[Chili]

AS a new form member, you can't attach pictures to your posts. I think you need 10 posts first.

I'm not sure that is the case, I believe I've seen new people posting pics before.

OP, what type of image are you attaching? The error message says Invalid Type.

 

[FrankIV]

AS a new form member, you can't attach pictures to your posts. I think you need 10 posts first. 'Composing' - what do you mean? Are you recording in the room? If so, what instruments? Are you merely mixing in the room? What monitors do you have?

Don't buy 'foam' for acoustic treatment, you want rockwool or something like OC703 or &05.

sorry i should have clarified; by composing i mean composing orchestral music using mostly in-computer VST instruments, so yes it will only be a mixing room. All live recordings will be done in another room built for that purpose. I'm currently using two yamaha HS8 monitors with a yamaha HS8S subwoofer, considering expanding to a 5.1 surround setup. im glad you mentioned OC703, thats actually what i plan on using to build my own panels. i was hoping to fill the room mostly with 4' x 2' insulation panels, or maybe even bigger for this specific room in hopes that they would work far better than the typical rigid foam you can buy loads of on amazon.

the pictures were approved last night. i just re-attachied them and they're now fixed.

 

[FrankIV]

I'm not sure that is the case, I believe I've seen new people posting pics before.

OP, what type of image are you attaching? The error message says Invalid Type.

i attached the pictures in jpeg format, they worked fine last night. i just re-attached them, they seem to be presenting fine now.

 

[mjbphotos]

Ok, can see the pictures now. A dimensional drawing would be better. When setting up a mixing room, symmetry is important - even more so if you are trying to mix to 5.1. Just not sure how much you can do that in that room.

 

[FrankIV]

Ok, can see the pictures now. A dimensional drawing would be better. When setting up a mixing room, symmetry is important - even more so if you are trying to mix to 5.1. Just not sure how much you can do that in that room.

I agree about the symmetry, that's my biggest fear with the room. Thats why I'm considering sectioning the pocket area of the room using dividers with insulation panels on them, or running a long heavy curtain line across it the front of it.

I just took all the measurments of the room and will make a 'to actual size' print and post it tomorrow morning with all corresponding items etc to better represent the room

 

[BroKen_H]

Following.

 

[FrankIV]

Okay made this on my break, the sketch is in exact proporsion to all the measurments. I should mention the floors are wood, but I figure a couple 12×12 rug matts will fix that. I felt the bed would work best where it is for dampening that corner of the room, but if it doesn't matter please let me know.

 

[mjbphotos]

OK, with those dimensions and yoru basic idea, I think it's workable. Lots of trapping (but we all need it!) The mix desk position is good, consider buildign superchunks for both corners as well as 4" traps on the whole front wall (the one you face while at the desk).
Point-of-first reflection traps on left and right at he appropriate places (use the mirror trick from your mix sitting position). Some trapping along the ceiling-wall corners in that area, too, would be good - whatever you can afford and put in won't hurt - you're not recording in the room, so don't need to worry about it being too 'dead'.
It would be good to get superchunks in both the rear corners, and as much 4" trapping as you could on the back wall, with the doors you've got, that will be difficult. You can build/buy free-standing traps that you can roll into position along that back wall when you're mixing, then roll back out of the way when you're done. Or hang traps on doors, over the entrance door area and closet using hook-and-eyes in the ceiling or the walls or doors.

Only other thing I can suggest at this point: paint those walls! Man that is an ugly shade of green!

 

[Pinky]

I also like where you're looking to put the mixing area, but for 5.1 your rears might be too far away and I can't see you having them sitting smack in the middle of the room.

I'm a fan of surround music and have a very respectable BR-A/DVD-A/DTS/SACD collection. But I would never in a billion years devote a single dollar or minute of my time to the format. Even for the biggest artists, the interest in 5.1 mixes is minuscule with the general music listening public. It takes time, equipment, and effort to generate mixes that very very very few people will ever listen to. So my vote is to focus on getting the best you can with the 2.1 setup, and it should simplify the treatment and saves you from having to buy more speakers and a sound card/interface capable of a 5.1 output [if you didn't already have these things]. /rant

 

[mjbphotos]

Pinkie - but the OP said he would be doing orchestra film scores, so surround sound is important for that. And the room size is not necessarily bad for that either, but might want to move the mixing desk about 5 feet in from that front wall.

 

[rob aylestone]

Can't see any issue that can't be fixed with time and money. I'd be very happy to have that space and could make it work. Being realistic, the notion of adding dividers and curtains is a real bodge. That door - can it go? It says unusable. To get the symmetry, maybe you could create an extension of the pocket area into the room, and make the newly created small space somewhere to put the noisy hardware? Do you have issues with noise coming in? If so, then adding more mass to the surfaces to give some isolation might help. Best thing would be a decent set of ears to listen to it now, empty. Then you can assess what treatment - as in traps, diffusers, and the other stuff to get it under control. People work successfully in more nasty spaces, and nothing really jumps out saying DO NOT RECORD IN THIS ROOM. I too suspect stereo in the conventional sense might be the starting point.

 

[FrankIV]

I also like where you're looking to put the mixing area, but for 5.1 your rears might be too far away and I can't see you having them sitting smack in the middle of the room.

I'm a fan of surround music and have a very respectable BR-A/DVD-A/DTS/SACD collection. But I would never in a billion years devote a single dollar or minute of my time to the format. Even for the biggest artists, the interest in 5.1 mixes is minuscule with the general music listening public. It takes time, equipment, and effort to generate mixes that very very very few people will ever listen to. So my vote is to focus on getting the best you can with the 2.1 setup, and it should simplify the treatment and saves you from having to buy more speakers and a sound card/interface capable of a 5.1 output [if you didn't already have these things]. /rant

Pinky as mjbphotos said I will be using it for film scoring, but I do agree with you on the fact that placing 2 more speakers in the very back would just be too unequal. If I did place them (sort of) In the middle of the room, more mirrored to the front speakers, woukd this acoustically be a bad idea, or would it just simply be unaesthetic?

 

[FrankIV]

Pinkie - but the OP said he would be doing orchestra film scores, so surround sound is important for that. And the room size is not necessarily bad for that either, but might want to move the mixing desk about 5 feet in from that front wall.

Your last comment about the color had me cracking up haha. I'm actually painting it today, I can't stand it. I'll definitely take your advice on the placement of absorbers and moving the desk out. One thing I do wonder though. Will lots of flat panel absorbers on the walls/ ceiling, and thick corner traps be enough, or should I also be looking into rounded diffusers?

This is the type of diy panels I've considered making, but with the Owen's corning insulator instead of roxel (unless there is no difference), and also made to a much larger scale being the the room is so large. https://youtu.be/GBHYiWIJhUA

There are other tutorials I'm referencing, but do you know any specific ones you would recommend?

 

[FrankIV]

Can't see any issue that can't be fixed with time and money. I'd be very happy to have that space and could make it work. Being realistic, the notion of adding dividers and curtains is a real bodge. That door - can it go? It says unusable. To get the symmetry, maybe you could create an extension of the pocket area into the room, and make the newly created small space somewhere to put the noisy hardware? Do you have issues with noise coming in? If so, then adding more mass to the surfaces to give some isolation might help. Best thing would be a decent set of ears to listen to it now, empty. Then you can assess what treatment - as in traps, diffusers, and the other stuff to get it under control. People work successfully in more nasty spaces, and nothing really jumps out saying DO NOT RECORD IN THIS ROOM. I too suspect stereo in the conventional sense might be the starting point.

If by 'dividers/ curtain being a bodge' you mean unnecessarily messy or a less than quality fix, then I would gladly treat the room without them. Because I agree it would really be an awkward addition to the room, aesthetics wise at least. As far as extending the pocket so the room is more symmetrical, I would have gladly put up a full dividing wall, but I don't have permission to edit the room that drastically. The 'unusable door' technically will still need to be accessed but very rarely. I plan to using insulator to fill it equally to the other insulating panels I'll place on the wall, hopefully the wall will act more uniform after wards. I'm glad to hear people have worked successfully in worse rooms than this. Definitely makes me feel like I'm not investing in a waste

 

[mjbphotos]

Your last comment about the color had me cracking up haha. I'm actually painting it today, I can't stand it. I'll definitely take your advice on the placement of absorbers and moving the desk out. One thing I do wonder though. Will lots of flat panel absorbers on the walls/ ceiling, and thick corner traps be enough, or should I also be looking into rounded diffusers?

This is the type of diy panels I've considered making, but with the Owen's corning insulator instead of roxel (unless there is no difference), and also made to a much larger scale being the the room is so large. https://youtu.be/GBHYiWIJhUA

There are other tutorials I'm referencing, but do you know any specific ones you would recommend?

2'x4 panels are the standard, because that's the size the rockwool (or OC) comes in. Of course you can make them thicker than 4". and side wall and ceiling panels can be 2" (less bass absorption needed). In small rooms, diffusors are not necessarily needed. I'd go with a bunch of bass trap panels to start with and see how it sounds.

 

[BroKen_H]

Question: Are your satellites small enough to roof mount? Will that affect the way things are heard? In my living room, the rear speakers are mounted to a ceiling beam and pointed at the listening position. They work perfectly well there. The only acoustic treatment in that room (28x19) is (should that be are?) some corner traps. The room has a great sound, vaulted ceilings, large space, good dimensions...Love to use that space for recording, but it was hard enough to get my wife to give up a bedroom.

 

[FrankIV]

2'x4 panels are the standard, because that's the size the rockwool (or OC) comes in. Of course you can make them thicker than 4". and side wall and ceiling panels can be 2" (less bass absorption needed). In small rooms, diffusors are not necessarily needed. I'd go with a bunch of bass trap panels to start with and see how it sounds.

Awesome, I'll do that then. Do you know any really good brands that sell panels and traps? I was hoping to buy at least a couple to cut down on the DIY work. I'm going to need to make alot of these haha. The only brands I've found are made from foam, I'd like to stay using an actual insulation if possible

 

[BroKen_H]

AFA a brand, if you're in the states, I and a few others that I've talked to here were very happy with Acoustimac. They have parts, DIY kits (with frames pre-built and cloth separate) and full pre-built panels. They've got green glue, mounts, etc. Got to say the DIY kits are cheap enough that I had to go that way. Stretching the cloth over the panels and stapling them yourself is well worth the difference you'll pay! Check out their selection. acoustimac.com
Be sure to figure out what mounting system you'll be using. I simply mounted eye hooks and tied that cable (wire) to hang pictures between the eye hooks. Then I caulked green glue around the frame. Once the green glue dried (didn't want it to actually glue to the wall) I mounted to z-clips. Only install problem was getting the wire over the z-clips behind the insulation...To do over, I would have stained the frames, wrapped the foam using upholstery adhesive and green glued the wrapped foam pieces INSIDE the frames. Would have looked nicer.

Sorry, not trying to advert for these guys...there are plenty of outfits that sell panels, but my only problem with them is I over ordered. I've got an extra box of 8 2x2x2" panel kits I never used sitting in my shed for the last two years.