Question about cable management...

pikingrin

pikingrin

what is this?
I've got a modest little DAW setup...
topside.JPG

Underneath, however, looks like a complete mess...
wire mess.JPG

As is stands right now, I have no issues getting clean signals from mics and out of monitors - even though almost each and every wire is entwined with power cords. Before I go through the trouble of cleaning this up, I'm curious whether or not looming power cords together will increase the chance of signal interference. As I'm typing this out it seems like a stupid question but I'm not an electrical engineer so go easy on me! :D

I'm thinking of either getting some cheap loom or just zip-tying the power cords together and tucking them up against one of the legs of the desk away from the majority of the mic cables, but some will inevitably be in contact with either a single cord or two or the entire bundle.

Any thoughts are appreciated!
 
Everything has to be built to the FCC Part 15 subpart J or something irrelevant like that. Basically, it can't cause interference and it has to be capable of rejecting interference. Power supplies and cabling are pretty good at doing that. Rejecting noise and shielding signals.

Power cables and signal cables aren't really a problem in close proximity if they are perpendicular or in a random rat's nest. It becomes an issue when they run together, parallel, for a substantial length and even then, it may not cause a problem. An example, when I ran FOH long ago, I used to tape an extension cord to the mic snake from the stage back to my desk. Never a problem. 50ft - 75 ft along 16 mic channels.

For my little studio, I use cable channels and wraps. I shove everything I can in them to keep the place clean.

hth,
 
I've got a rat's nest of cables as well. There was a time when I went all OCD, tidied them up and cable-tied them so that they stayed tidied up. That worked well. Until I had to replace something and had to cut open all the cable ties. From then on, I regressed once more to a rat's nest. However, neither order nor disorder had an impact on clean signals.
 
I think it was Miro that uses some sort of almost guttering type of system. Open-top long trays that the cable can lie in, so it'll be out of the way. And it's not bound up so you don't run into Zzed's issue with having to undo a bunch of ties. I've been considering this for my own setup for a while now.

Oh, and I think that we might be using the same desk. Is that a Middle Atlantic MDV-DSK?
 
Tadpui said:
I think it was Miro that uses some sort of almost guttering type of system. Open-top long trays that the cable can lie in, so it'll be out of the way. And it's not bound up so you don't run into Zzed's issue with having to undo a bunch of ties. I've been considering this for my own setup for a while now.

Oh, and I think that we might be using the same desk. Is that a Middle Atlantic MDV-DSK?
Click to expand...
That's not a bad idea - the tray thing. I hadn't even thought about the problem Zed mentioned; that would be a PITA to have to undo all of that if it was zip-tied...if it was split loom it still might be an ordeal.

It is a Middle Atlantic desk but don't get me to lying to you about the model. It was one of the least expensive I could find at the time without going through the hassle of building my own. It makes me regret my old kidney shaped desk I used to have about 4 moves ago...lots more room on the desktop for everything without being so cramped like this one.
 
mixsit said:
I cleaned up a few months ago, posted this;
https://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment-forums/the-rack/couple-cool-rack-cable-accsesories-379117/
Most of the power strips, power cabling and power supplies now mounted, cables shortened and combined all up under the table. I got a good 75% off the floor and not dangling' down the back of the gear.

Power Cord - Hosa Technology
Power Y Cables - Hosa Technology
Click to expand...
Do you use the split power cables? That would solve a lot of my issues right there; I've got 2 furman power conditioners from my old gig rack (and a trade from a friend) that I use for my power strips. They take up 2 rack spaces though, and contribute to some of the cable dangle with their longer leads. I suppose that most pieces of rack equipment don't draw too much power though... I'm going to be disassembling some of this to get my desk moved without a monitor dropping; getting an outlet upgraded this weekend from a single to a double gang (4 outlets instead of 4) because I'm out of outlets within 10ft of my desk, too. Double cords may very well be in my future. Thanks!
 
pikingrin said:
Do you use the split power cables? That would solve a lot of my issues right there; I've got 2 furman power conditioners from my old gig rack (and a trade from a friend) that I use for my power strips. They take up 2 rack spaces though, and contribute to some of the cable dangle with their longer leads. . ...Double cords may very well be in my future. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes. Dual IEC x FM power, combined with dedicated short IEC's and/or power cords, do that a few times and you've cut them by half.
 
pikingrin said:
That's not a bad idea - the tray thing. I hadn't even thought about the problem Zed mentioned; that would be a PITA to have to undo all of that if it was zip-tied...if it was split loom it still might be an ordeal.

It is a Middle Atlantic desk but don't get me to lying to you about the model. It was one of the least expensive I could find at the time without going through the hassle of building my own. It makes me regret my old kidney shaped desk I used to have about 4 moves ago...lots more room on the desktop for everything without being so cramped like this one.
Click to expand...

I think that Middle Atlantic only has that one desk. I ended up getting that plus 2 of their side racks. One I use for my rackmount PC and patchbays, the other I put a shelf in and use it for rolling storage (I put the caster kits on both of them). I really love it, and the 2 side racks doubles your desktop space.

I recognized the "bottom" sticker under your desk, I see mine every time I have to crawl under it to rewire stuff :)
 
Someone mentioned using plastic gutters to run all your cables around a room. I don't have the space for them, but have about 40 feet of old gutters someone is welcome to if you're in the area.
 
Tadpui said:
I think that Middle Atlantic only has that one desk. I ended up getting that plus 2 of their side racks. One I use for my rackmount PC and patchbays, the other I put a shelf in and use it for rolling storage (I put the caster kits on both of them). I really love it, and the 2 side racks doubles your desktop space.

I recognized the "bottom" sticker under your desk, I see mine every time I have to crawl under it to rewire stuff :)
Click to expand...
Yeah...I meant to peel that sticker off when I was putting it together but said "screw it, nobody will ever see that." :D

I don't have enough equipment (or room) for the side racks, my main issue is surface area for keyboard, mouse and a 49-key MIDI controller. If I use my nanopad to work out a drum beat then I've got to move the mouse and PC keyboard to the floor just to have enough room. Might add installing a pullout drawer for my 49-key underneath it and lifting the entire desk up by a couple inches to my project list for the weekend, along with tidying up those cables a bit.
 
I bought and am installing some 'open slot cable trays' in my Studio. The advantage of these is that they have cable sized slots all down the length of the tray which are used for flexible routing (I'll post at a later date to let you know if it works in the real world). My studio is mostly for recording my own music, so I don't have to reroute mic cables much, and I like that I can lay in my more permanent wiring on the bottom and the more frequently moved cables on top. Since every foot of tray has 20+ slots, I can branch out to equipment wherever needed.


http://www.cableorganizer.com › Cable Management › Wire Duct

(To see example)
 
I am sorry but it is not true to say that a random grouping of mains and signal cables does not degrade the noise performance.

You might not hear it (very few monitors deliver much at 50/60Hz and the FM curves mean you won't detect it on headphones unless you routinely crank levels to find it)

By far the best test is a "silent" 10sec recording of the system's output at normal settings and then stuff the .wav into something like Right Mark Analyser. This can be a revelation! My system for instance has a 50Hz hum spike some 6dB above the noise floor and oddly one channel is clearly about 3dB worse than the other! Since there is no one here "doing music" at the moment and I have nothing to send to John (Massive, who I am sure looks for such things and almost certainly has good enough kit to hear them!) I am not that fussed.

If everything, and I do mean everything(!) is balanced in and out, you can be a bit cavalier about things but lots of kit in the home studio is not and since even quite modest AIs these days have -100dB noise floors it is a shame to degrade that by 10dB or more of hum and 10dB either way can be caused by having a mains cable 30 instead of 300mm from a signal lead. Remember too that gear does not have an infinite Common Mode Rejection Ratio! In general LINE inputs are (for obscure reasons) 20dB WORSE for CMRR than are mic channels.

One of the worst sources of hum are wall rat and line lump power supplies, especially AC-AC devices (I know "ours" is terrible!). Keep them AT LEAST 1/2 a mtr from signal wires, even balanced ones!

Beware the Power Conditioner! Some types inject crap into the earth line.

So, do a recording and run a spectrum. You might not be able to remove all traces of visible hum but I bet you will be able to improve it by 10dB. Then, check it once a month, it WILL get away from you!

Dave.
 
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