Near field monitoring - how close is too close

pure.fusion

New member
Hey all,

I posted a week ago about changing monitors from my dead KRK 6's to Yamaha HS7's which are rear ported.

Same studio, same treatment, same positions but new monitors got me a worse result - some low frequencies are soft and (even) lower frequencies boom :(

Before I spit the dummy and go back to KRKs, I'll have a play and see if I can get a better result.

So my monitors are 1.8m (about 6feet) from my ears. How close can I bring these towards me for effective near field monitoring?

I'm assuming that I have to get these rear ported speakers away from the wall - currently about 0.8m ( 'bout 2.5 feet) side and front.

Any comments appreciated.

FM
 
My nearfields are about .75 mtrs from my listening position. They are front ported with 5" drivers.

Before giving up on your new monitors, you are going to have to learn them. Listen to a lot of commercially released music similar to what you're recording. Get acclimated to the new sound. You might need to alter the treatment of your room. Maybe put some traps behind the monitors.
 
+1 to the above.
From my experience the KRKs are a bit more bass heavy, hence the popularity in EDM and Hip Hop circles. The Yammies tend to be a bit flatter. Rear ported can be a bit of a pain to get used to.
But it's my opinion, and opinion only, that once you learn the Yamaha monitors, you'll get better results.
So Merry Christmas, and don't give up on those bad boys yet!
:D
 
So my monitors are 1.8m (about 6feet) from my ears. How close can I bring these towards me for effective near field monitoring?

"About 6 feet" is actually about right...and I assume that when you say that's from your ears, you're talking about a 6' equilateral triangle...so they are also about 6 feet from each other...?

Here's the ideal setup: https://www.carltatzdesign.com/acoustic-tools/the-null-positioning-ensemble.pdf


AFA from the from wall...that's something to experiment with. Sometimes you may actually want them up against the front wall.
 
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"About 6 feet" is actually about right...and I assume that when you say that's from your ears, you're talking about a 6' equilateral triangle...so they are also about 6 feet from each other...?

Correct.

My nearfields are about .75 mtrs from my listening position. They are front ported with 5" drivers.

Before giving up on your new monitors, you are going to have to learn them. Listen to a lot of commercially released music similar to what you're recording. Get acclimated to the new sound. You might need to alter the treatment of your room. Maybe put some traps behind the monitors.

0.75? Cheers.

Learning is done. My ears tell me there's a hole in the bass. I have no doubt that if I mixed to these Yamahas in this room config, I'd be adding bass to fill the hole and as a result the mix would be bass heavy on other listening devices.

Room is treated. 1st reflections and bass traps.

Rear ported can be a bit of a pain to get used to.
So Merry Christmas, and don't give up on those bad boys yet!
:D

Ha! Cheers man.

Can I ask what you mean by your rear ported comment?

The reviews on the Yamahas say, and I quote "Cons - The rear-mounted port prevents optimal placement in smaller studios". I posted here to sus it out and decided to try in on. Yet, here I am :(

I think the HS7s have more clarity than the KRK's by the way. I like them. I just can't move forward with a hole in the bottom end.

I see pics of home studio's with monitors *really* close to the listening position - even Yamaha's own promo vid where some electronic music dude had two massive HS8's! (YouTube)

I guess my only options are to move them closer to me (away from the front/side walls) and see if the problem goes away. It's going to be far easier to get the KRKs again than to diagnose a room or placement problem in a amateur fashion.

Thus this post - how near is too near.

Cheers.
 
Can I ask what you mean by your rear ported comment?

Rear ported means you're going to have some of the bass frequencies firing out of the back where they end up bouncing around. Some monitors have contour or boundary switches which basically cut off some of the bass.
Any rear ported monitor should be away fron the wall. Usually I see 3 feet being pretty standard. The closer to a wall or boundary they are the more problems with the low end.

As far as distance from you, closer is good.
Remember near field monitors were designed so you heard the speaker. Not the room. The closer you are to them the more actual source sound you'll hear rather than reflections.

Spkrs in the price range of the Yammies and KRKs aren't necessarily the flattest as far as reproduction of what is actually there.

Quite possibly the KRKs are producing bass that isn't really there. I've found they do that, they hype the bottom end.

I'd be willing to bet that you haven't 'really' learned the Yamaha monitors yet and are still used to the KRKs.

The HS7s have definately more bottom end response than the infamous NS10s, and engineers and producers have been getting awesome results with those for decades. Why? They truly know the speakers.
:D
 
2.5 ft away from the front wall should be enough to negate the rear bassport problem, but traps on the front wall are never a bad thing. You are comparing to the KRKs, which I believe had a hyped low midrange/bass and say 'treatment is the same' - what size is the room? What bass trapping do you actually have in it?
As mentioned , learning the new speakers is crucial. Have you taken one of your previous mixes (that translated well on other systems) and played it through the new speakers?
 
Every room/space is different. I sold my KRK G2 8's after realizing they were lying to me. Definitely hyped in the low end.

Event TR8's I thought were weak in the low end, until I started actually mixing with them. Much more clarity in the mid range yet no low end. A sub fixed what I was missing down there... This is not a suggestion by the way.

After investing in much better monitors, I have learned that there is much more to do with how we actually learn what the monitors are telling us. And there is much of that that depends on the room and how it is treated. We cant even go there in guessing what room acoustic treatment works for any given room. That is likely the most impossible thing for anyone to guess what is best for you, yet the most important investment.

Trial and error is the only way to find what works with any monitor/room/treatment combination.

I suggest that you spend some time with your new monitors before judging them. I have learned over the years that I was listening for the wrong thing. It is much easier to understand when you get to that point. I know, it sounds vague as shit, but it is true.
 
Reference mixes can be really key - music that is similar to your own sound and sounds good on any system.
 
Just a few comments about this rear-porting thing.

First, it's not only bass that's being emitted by that port, since the crossover for most of these small 2-way monitors is relatively high (let's guess north of 1.5kHz). So, your mitigation is not just a bass trap, but really something more like a broadband one.

And, second, the level you are monitoring at is (or should be) low enough that you don't (or shouldn't) really need to worry about absorbing massive bass from that port. Of course, you need something, but you don't need 200mm of rockwool directly behind the monitors IMO. (You do need something other than foam, though.) I have a some of the same panels with single layer (3") Safe'n'Sound that I have around the room, which is probably fine for most home recording rooms (IMO).

Last, 2.5' from the wall seems really far away to me. By that time, the rear-facing port will have spread quite wide and be harder to actually trap, not to mention how much of your room space is now lost behind the monitors - not workable in my small room. (Maybe I misread the post...)

I just measured. My monitors are actually 4' apart, and my desk chair puts me 4' from each monitor. It's a little tight, but 6' would mean I have to buy/make floor stands, plus I couldn't actually sit at the desk while monitoring, unless I pull the desk away from the wall, and I can't give up that much space (small room). The monitors are 1' from the wall and about 7" from the panels behind them. It sounds Ok to me, but I'm still learning.
 
I just measured. My monitors are actually 4' apart, and my desk chair puts me 4' from each monitor. It's a little tight, but 6' would mean I have to buy/make floor stands, plus I couldn't actually sit at the desk while monitoring, unless I pull the desk away from the wall, and I can't give up that much space (small room). The monitors are 1' from the wall and about 7" from the panels behind them. It sounds Ok to me, but I'm still learning.

The main thing you lose is the stereo imaging when the monitors are too close to each other and when you're too close to them.
You are almost at a good sitting position where you are at 4'...you only need to move back a little bit to be inside the sweet spot...so it's mainly the monitors.

https://www.carltatzdesign.com/acoustic-tools/the-null-positioning-ensemble.pdf
 
The main thing you lose is the stereo imaging when the monitors are too close to each other and when you're too close to them...
The closer you get, the greater the stereo imaging. If you had each monitor a couple of inches away from each ear you would effectively have a giant pair of cans, which, as we know, have exaggerated stereo imaging.

To the OP. I have HS80s and my listening position is similar to the dude in the video. I solved my port problems by sticking a pair of rolled up socks in each port.
 
The closer you get, the greater the stereo imaging. If you had each monitor a couple of inches away from each ear you would effectively have a giant pair of cans, which, as we know, have exaggerated stereo imaging.

To the OP. I have HS80s and my listening position is similar to the dude in the video. I solved my port problems by sticking a pair of rolled up socks in each port.

You're not reading my post correctly.... "you lose is the stereo imaging when the monitors are too close to each other and when you're too close to them"

Now...you wanna talk about sticking you're head in between the monitors with them 1' apart...well, no one mixes like that....also, as you do something like that, as you get in closer between monitors, you create a center "hole" in the image. If you want to mix with headphones, then mix with headphones, but they bring other issues to the table.

Look...I know people in home studios often have obstacles to deal with...trying to getting things optimal...but the link I posted from Carl Tatz...is THE best case scenario. There's no debate about that, if you want the best stereo imaging possible. Anything less...well, it's less than optimal.
 
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