Home Studio (version 2.5) - pics included

[cincy_kid]

It's me again!

So, it has been almost a year and we finally got our home office moved from the basement to upstairs. This now frees up our old office space for me to expand my studio.

For those who remember I was exploring different ways to have my studio set up. First off here is a diagram of the current space layout:

This was posted in my last Studio thread which you can read (if you like) here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=197282

There were some good ideas/suggestions from Peritus, Panda and others, and thanks again for the suggestions. I am putting this back out there to get more comments in addition to some changes from the last plan. Here are some topics I would like to discuss / ask advice on:

(Comment on any or all of the following topics. Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated)


Treatment Overview

I have been reading a lot lately on Ethan's site(s), various forums, articles etc and to be honest am probably on information overload status but as far as treating my rooms I wanted to ask some general questions. First off in the control room, I am going to use the proper formulas for setting up the correct way, in the right position and take care of early reflections.

Is there some general rule of thumb thing that you should do before doing any treatment at all? I mean I have never mixed in this room yet and have no idea what it sounds like. Should I first mix in it with no treatment at all to see how live/dead it is and then add/subtract treatment as I go? or should I still follow the general rules of early reflections, bass traps, etc? I just dont want to add a bunch of stuff and then have a completely dead room...(or do I?)

As far as the live room, pretty much the same question. I am going to have some broadband absorbers that I can place on the walls and/or corners. I will also be using the same principle as Ethan's Portable Vocal Booth for vocals as well as the guitar amp. Should I record some first and then add treatment as I see the need for more?



CounterTops

In my last thread I said the countertops couldn't be touched but now I have the choice of ripping them out completely. I could also leave them installed and even add another one to the left as Panda had suggested in my last thread. If I left them in, I was thinking I could hang some fabric from them to hide what's underneath and use it as a storage area for gear or whatever. On the other hand I am also thinking ripping them out would give me more space for other things.

Ceiling

I have a drop ceiling in both the live and control room space. I had planned on hanging a cloud in the proper position in the control room to handle early reflections. If I do, can it be done with the drop ceiling? What i mean to say is, can the drop ceiling support the 15-30 lbs of continual strain of the cloud in addition to any other panels that may need to be hung? I also read where you could simply put the pink style fiberglass up inside the drop ceiling in bundles which could do the trick. If you do this method, do you still keep the tiles in place or remove them, replacing the tiles with a breathable fabric? Keeping the tiles in place seems like it would be pretty reflective. I am looking for suggestions in this area as well (ceiling treatment). Same question in the live room. Should I throw some fiberglass up in the drop ceiling as well?

Absorption Panels

Currently I have 4" thick 703 panels 2x4. I have been using the 3 that I have completed as broadband absorbers when I mixed and recorded in the same room. From everything I have read, it seems that on the early reflection points, you want to use 1" or 2" thick 703. Will it hurt for me to use the 4" stuff I already have? I am going to need to buy more of whatever material I use, so I can always buy some 1" or 2" stuff if that will help me more. I just want to make sure that is best for the early reflections and also why that would be true. Just because it absorbs mostly high and mids?

Also, the 703 is off the wall a bit (because of the wood frame hanging on the wall), however with the frame being right up against the wall, I am not sure that would classify as an air gap, does it?

Room Shape

As you can see from my diagram above, my control room is not rectangle shape, it has a cutout near the entry way. In my other thread, Peritus had suggested putting a sliding / bi-fold door there using 703 panels which I thought to be a great idea.

A) Would it indeed help if the room was "squared off" with some sort of wall or sliding doorway as suggested?

B) Would using 703 panels across the entire back of the control room in this fashion make the space too dead?



Desk

The desk I have now worked pretty good in my last room because the size of the room was so small that I had no room for monitor stands, and the desk has the raised sides which perfectly fit the monitors on it. Since I have more room now, I was going to use this conference style table as my desk (basically just a flat rectangle table) and set the monitors on some sort of stands behind the desk. I also think this will give me more of the proper space forula as Etahn mentions in the room setup on his acoustics page. Using the otmy current would result in the monitors sitting too close to me I think, considering the larger new room size.

Windows

In the control room area, as you can see from the pictures, there are 3 windows. They all have frames and was thinking of just putting some framed 703 around them. Is this good? bad? other? Anyone have suggestions about the windows?

Lights

In the live room I have one of those long flouresent light fixtures that hangs from the drop ceiling. Early on I had suggestions to take that out and use regular lighitng or faders or something. To be honest I really dont hear the sound being picked up in my mixes, but I am for sure open to doing track lighting or something different in the live room to help set the "mood" (maybe colored lights) and also help with sound reduction.

Work Desk

One caveat in the control room is that I will need to have a small space to work as well. In this picture where the white cabinet looking thing is:

I was thining of putting one of those closing desk things in. Where it looks like a cabinet, but opens to a computer desk during the day for me to do my job:

If I had something in that position, will it affect my mixes etc? Any other suggestions?



Colors

I painted the live room a purple color when I was mixing and recording in the same room:

The new control room space is a light brown color as you can see in the above pictures. I am now toying with re-painting each one or both, maybe none? Any suggestions on good colors and why?



Fabrics

The Panels and traps and other things I will construct will most likely be covered in burlap. I am also considering buying some GOM fabric. Are either one of those fabrics better in regards to being fire retardant? I worry that when I am away and with my computers or anything else on that I will come home one day and my house will be on fire with all of the 703 panels / treatment / burlap being the root of the cause. Should I spray stuff down with the 3M fire retardant spray? WIll that help or is there a better suggestion?



I suppose that is all for now off the top of my head. Are you still readin this??

Thanks in advance for all comments as I am excited to get this project underway!

 

[cincy_kid]

Anyone? I know its a lot of information, but you can answer or give advice on just 1 topic if you like

 

[Shout It Out]

in my drop tile ceiling, I made cardboard cutouts the size of tiles and spray adhesived foam on them so they dropped in place a foam tiles 4 pieces on a 2'x2' piece. worked great, the bass frqs seems to keep going (not reflecting) and the highs and mids wer stopped. I liked it. I'm sure fiberglass and a cloth would work amazingly, i just woudl hate if it sagged though.

 

[pandamonk]

Anyone? I know its a lot of information, but you can answer or give advice on just 1 topic if you like

I will respond in a while, my mind just can't take it all in just now.

 

[cincy_kid]

Shout - Oooh nice idea! Did you cover the entire ceiling that way or just the cloud area for early reflections?

Panda - hehe ok sounds good, looking forward to your comments ~

 

[Shout It Out]

I only covered the cloud area... If you have a drum set in that room, I would put a cloud above that as well, but that is just me. I will try to help on some other questions too, I just know the drop tile question because I worked with it. Good luck!

 

[pandamonk]

in my drop tile ceiling, I made cardboard cutouts the size of tiles and spray adhesived foam on them so they dropped in place a foam tiles 4 pieces on a 2'x2' piece. worked great, the bass frqs seems to keep going (not reflecting) and the highs and mids wer stopped. I liked it. I'm sure fiberglass and a cloth would work amazingly, i just woudl hate if it sagged though.

Could you explain this more, or show some pictures. I don't really know what you're meaning.

 

[pandamonk]

Sorry, I'm not really in the mood for a big explanation or anything, but here's what I think you should do...

Any questions?

The 4" won't hurt anything. First reflection points however don't need to be able to absorb bass that well, so 2" will suffice, and will be cheaper.

Do those ceiling panels absorb at all? They look as though the would, but obviously not as well as fiberglass. I think if you put some fluffy insulation up there it should definitely help with bass, and just hang a cloud in the ceiling first reflection point. I don't know if it'll hold the weight though...

I think you should leave in the counter tops. Use them for your video and sound monitors, and for your work computer.

Covering your back wall with absorption will be good. The sound bounces room and most if not all reaches the back at some point. Do don't really want that sound bouncing back up to you screwing you imaging etc, so yeah covering the back wall is a good idea.

And colours, whatever makes you feel happy

 

[Shout It Out]

Panda's idea is genious...and What I mean about the drop tile is. usually a drop tile piece would be 4' x 2' or 2'x2'. what you do is, instead of ruingign the ceilign tile, make a cardboard one, then use some spray adhesive for foam, and let it hand where the normal drop tile would. it looks professional.

Acutally a better way of explainign it...you know those diffusers aurlax sells that are 2'x2'...that work in drop tile ceilings. essientially I did that, but with cardboard and foam.

 

[pandamonk]

Panda's idea is genious...and What I mean about the drop tile is. usually a drop tile piece would be 4' x 2' or 2'x2'. what you do is, instead of ruingign the ceilign tile, make a cardboard one, then use some spray adhesive for foam, and let it hand where the normal drop tile would. it looks professional.

Acutally a better way of explainign it...you know those diffusers aurlax sells that are 2'x2'...that work in drop tile ceilings. essientially I did that, but with cardboard and foam.

Still not getting you

Do you mean: cut some cardboard 2'x2' and stick some foam to it, then drop it into where the tile would be?

I'd do the fabric with 703 if that were the case, although i'm sure it looks and works great. But i think you could stuff a bunch of fluffy insultion up there above/behind the tiles pretty thick, and have you whole ceiling act as a big bass trap, then hang a cloud. Would that work?

 

[cincy_kid]

Do those ceiling panels absorb at all? They look as though the would, but obviously not as well as fiberglass. I think if you put some fluffy insulation up there it should definitely help with bass, and just hang a cloud in the ceiling first reflection point. I don't know if it'll hold the weight though...

I cant imagine the current tiles being anything but reflective. They are like cardboard(ish). SO if I put the fluffy stuf up in there and then put the tiles back in place, I dont think it will do anything but reflect. (I could be wrong). I do not think it will hold the weight of the cloud I am afraid.

I REALLY like Shout's idea, but I also like using 703 instead of foam. I wonder, however, if I use the method of taking cardboard (or some rigid material) and then gluing or putting the 703 (or other absortion material) on it, it will not be comvered 100% due to the frame that the tiles rest in. Do you think that frame gap will mess up its purpose and instead try to make a cloud work where you will have 100% of the area covered?

I think you should leave in the counter tops. Use them for your video and sound monitors, and for your work computer.

Wow, leave them in huh? I figured that it would be a little off balance with only having it in the front and right side as far as symetry goes. May keep them, still debating ~

Covering your back wall with absorption will be good. The sound bounces room and most if not all reaches the back at some point. Do don't really want that sound bouncing back up to you screwing you imaging etc, so yeah covering the back wall is a good idea.

Ok, just wanted to make sure it wasn't too "dead". Also I see that you added your idea from the post you made in my last thread. Buildiong a wall? Or is that the slide door I was talking about? I dont want to do the major construction thing with knocking down or building new walls, but I can certainly add the sliding wall type thing I mentioned.

Overall though, I like your ideas Panda, thanks a lot for sharing them

Keep the posts / ideas coming folks!

 

[Shout It Out]

703 would be the best. And if you didnt Mash it up when droping it into place, you could probably use a bed shet wrapepd around it and drop it into place and it would looks great, burlap would work too. That is probably your best bet, especially if the tiles in your ceiling are 4'x2'.

 

[pandamonk]

I cant imagine the current tiles being anything but reflective. They are like cardboard(ish). SO if I put the fluffy stuf up in there and then put the tiles back in place, I dont think it will do anything but reflect. (I could be wrong). I do not think it will hold the weight of the cloud I am afraid.

I REALLY like Shout's idea, but I also like using 703 instead of foam. I wonder, however, if I use the method of taking cardboard (or some rigid material) and then gluing or putting the 703 (or other absortion material) on it, it will not be comvered 100% due to the frame that the tiles rest in. Do you think that frame gap will mess up its purpose and instead try to make a cloud work where you will have 100% of the area covered?



Wow, leave them in huh? I figured that it would be a little off balance with only having it in the front and right side as far as symetry goes. May keep them, still debating ~



Ok, just wanted to make sure it wasn't too "dead". Also I see that you added your idea from the post you made in my last thread. Buildiong a wall? Or is that the slide door I was talking about? I dont want to do the major construction thing with knocking down or building new walls, but I can certainly add the sliding wall type thing I mentioned.

Overall though, I like your ideas Panda, thanks a lot for sharing them

Keep the posts / ideas coming folks!

Low freqs will probably pass right through the tiles, which is what you'd want anyway.

I think you should add a simple stud wall with door. It's easy, and will help a bunch with isolation, and square up your room.

And leaving the counter tops in shouldn't make it off balance, because they're below ear height, etc.

 

[cincy_kid]

hmm, if they pass through the tiles and are not reflective that would be cool. So what you mean is to just take rolls of the fluffy stuff and stick it up in the ceiling behind the tiles and just leave the tiles in place?


Cant and dont want to add the stud wall. Isolation is not one of my conerns anyways. Do you think the sliding door method using 703 will be sufficient for squaring the room off?

 

[pandamonk]

hmm, if they pass through the tiles and are not reflective that would be cool. So what you mean is to just take rolls of the fluffy stuff and stick it up in the ceiling behind the tiles and just leave the tiles in place?


Cant and dont want to add the stud wall. Isolation is not one of my conerns anyways. Do you think the sliding door method using 703 will be sufficient for squaring the room off?

It'll make the back wall act like a broadband bass trap absorbing well down to 65Hz. So yeah it'd be good, but it would really square off the room. I think a wall would be good, to give isolation between your control and tracking rooms, and to give isolation from these to everywhere else. But if you don't need this then that's fine.

Yeah just rols off the fluffy stuff. Make it pretty thick though.

 

[cincy_kid]

Thanks again Panda. Any other suggestions on any of my other topics?

Anyone else?

 

[pandamonk]

It'll make the back wall act like a broadband bass trap absorbing well down to 65Hz. So yeah it'd be good, but it would really square off the room. I think a wall would be good, to give isolation between your control and tracking rooms, and to give isolation from these to everywhere else. But if you don't need this then that's fine.

Yeah just rols off the fluffy stuff. Make it pretty thick though.

I meant wouldn't

And I'll suggest later, bad time for me at the moment.

 

[cincy_kid]

bump to get more wisdom form the magnificent Panda

(and anyone else who cares to comment) hehe

 

[pandamonk]

Hey, sorry cincy. Forgot I'd said I'd post later. Still not a great time, but hey. What topics haven't i suggested for... Windows. I think the windows can be left. They're high enough not to affect much, in my opinion. Lights, hmm if you get faders, this can cause buzzing. It's really upto you, i think. Anything else you want me to suggest?

 

[cincy_kid]

Hrm, I don't know, anything you have ideas on

I am sure once I actually get started there will be more specific questions I will have, but if anyone has any general comments, feel free ~

On a side note, I do think I am going to remove the countertops. I have been researching / thinking about the desk situation. If you look at my current one:

The reason I was going to switch to a plain flat "conference table" style desk is because with the monitors sitting on the ledges, I was afraid that:

a) they would get some early reflections off of the table top if they werent on stands of some sort

b) since the size of my control room will be increasing by quite a bit, I was going to follow ethan's diagram of where to poistion yourself, desk, monitors, etc (see diagram above). If I use this desk it seems that the monitors will be too close together and not spread out enough.

however, it seems like all of the desks I have seen that people are DIYing or buying all have the the same ledge type shelves for their monitors:

to just show a few examples...

So now I am wondering if I shouldn't just use my same desk or was I right in my 2 concerns (a & b) about reflections and room size?