HELP - New Studio - Ceiling Decoupling

rmroza

New member
I'm new to the site. I built a 2-story structure starting in Jan 2016. The bottom is by workshop and
storage area. The upstairs I'm dedicating to a home recording studio and jam room!

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Attached is a general layout. It's actually a little older revision as I don't think I will put an Iso Booth
in the Live Room and there is only 1 door off of the hallway which leads to the controls room and 1 door from
the control room to the live room. The door from the hallway to the Live Room will not be there.
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Now, I live near the airport. 80% of the time there is no issue as the wind patterns and plans take off in
the OPPOSITE direction, but when the 20% does occur there can be noise and low-frequency rumble. The
building is just finishing up on Monday and it will be time to start PHASE III and the studio Control and
Live rooms. This is how it currently looks inside.

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My strategy is as follows:
1. I plan on making the rooms floating and totally decoupled from the structure. In this way also, if I ever
don't want a "studio" anymore and use the space for something else or sell it and want it a room again, the
rooms can be taken down like a convertible!

2. I will use U-boats I already procured and as in he Auralex-site, to build the new subflooring the rooms
will sit on top of -
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3. The rooms walls will be built on this new subfloor. There is no need for resilient channels as the walls
are built on this platfor and floating on rubber -
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4. Do to limiting space, the the walls will be stadard 2x4. I will use 2 layers of drywall cross-hatched and
use green glue and overlapping drywall with 1/2" and 5/8" at least to the inside (possibly outside wall).

5. I will pack the floor, walls, and ceiling with Stone Wool Insulation -
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Safe-n-Sound-3-in-x-15-1-4-in-x-47-
in-Soundproofing-Stone-Wool-Insulation-12-Roll-RXSS31525/202531875

Soo, I have a pretty decent plan. My only question to the forum is how to fasten the room(s) to the ceiling
while still keeping "decoupled" from the building?!?? Is there something on the market to achieve this (like
the U-boats do the floor? Please let me know. I plan on starting the studio rooms soon and having the
wholething done by Spring in under 50 days to enjoy a full season of recording and jamming! Thanks in
advance! :)
 
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Have you consulted a structural engineer about adding all that weight to the 2nd floor?
Have you consulted anyone regarding your overall room plans?
Are you going to be making a commercial business of this (Charging people to come over and record? Doing mixing?)

The reasons for these questions - your main tracking room is square (not good) with an iso booth (for amps?) in one corner giving extra corners to treat. Your control room does not look to be set up for mixing.

As to your noise issues - if this is a commercial enterprise, I can see why you would want to try to solve it, but if this is for your own use, you live with that and understand that sometimes you just won't be able to record.
 
I appreciate your questions, but they are really unnecessary.

My only question is...knowing that the rooms will be floating on the U-boats and new floor, HOW DO I AFFIX THEM TO THE CURRENT STRUCTURAL WHILE STILL MAINTAINING DE-COUPLING FROM THE OUTER ROOM AND STRUCTURE (as it's a room build inside of a room/structure)? Is there some sort of rubber fasteners or mounts available? What is your recommendations?

I'll worry about flight patterns and traffic, the overall structure with my builder friends, etc. Your concern is appreciated, but I have all of that handled and the structure is built like a fucking tank and dollars spared! :)
 
But the fact is you have a square tracking room and a non-ideal mixing room ... Maybe someone will advise.
 
I wouldn't bother with the room within a room thing, way too hard and expensive. If the ceiling cavity with layers of insulation, high density stuff the best. If the windows are double glasses great, if not double glaze them or build window plugs that can be put in during noisy times. How well are the existing walls built? Insulation in between? Double layer plasterboard? Double layer plasterboard on the walls and ceiling make a big difference.

Now the splitting up of the room, you do Not want a square room ever, because you will then spend a lot of money making it sound good. What is the green room for? Use the space in the studio?
Forget the iso booth, too small and you really want to use all the room you have.

Alan.
 
Hey Alan

I really think the room in a room thing is needed in this circumstance. As it is on the second floor, there is a lot of noise and bounce even thou the building is build like a brick shithouse to my master carpenter friends! :) The floating rooms sitting on the rubber and decoupled from the building and leaving any issues localized to the floating rooms would be beneficial. Yes, it's going to be expensive, for sure. I need to finish but started to completely price out everything now that the outer room is finished and I'm getting close to moving forward with the final Phase, but this is the building and space I have to utilize also, so "it is what it is", but I just need to find a way that works and as always for the cheapest price! :)

As an fyi, the walls are 2"x 4" with standard minimal R-13 regular fiberglass insulation with only single-layer 1/2" plasterboard. Again, another thing is to make these floating rooms "modular" or "convertible, so at any time, I can take them down and basically be left with a completely done and finished room! :) If I had unlimited resources and millions of dollars in the bank, of course I would have done differently.

Yes, again, I know, I know all about square rooms. I've been reading all about recording studios and loudspeaker design & construction as well as tube amplifiers and own my own amplifcation and engineering company and have a day-job in engineering and management I've been diong for 23 years...got it, but thanks for the reitteration.

Why the "Green Room", well for a couple reasons...first, I spent a lot of time with friends who are fairly well known musicians and helps to create the overall layout. In that, yeah, we scrapped the dedicated "isolation room" as if the room is floating and all insulated for sound and walls doubled, etc., according to the Aurelux folks (Acoustics 101), even with a 4" wall, you're talking a STC rating of "59" which is very good! So the room itself is sort-of-a anachoic chamber and isolation room in itself and a seggregated one, unnecessary! The other reasons were they wanted a place to (in their words) "keep people the HELL out of the recording and control rooms! A lot of time extra people are brought...roadies to carry in stuff, whores, whatever. They don't want them in the artistic environments...so, head to the green room for cocktails and watch som tv or go out on the deck and hang. For me, if I have a party, it's still are to be used to hang out or me to just "chill out" and watch tv or whatever. That's why!

Ok, back to the original question...after 2 days now!...is there a way to float the room and isolate it from the structure, but still fasten it? Is there anything on the market?!??

Attached is an updated layout of the room.

Studio Concept.jpg
 
The ceiling in a floating room is usually supported by the floating walls, because of the problem of reduced height because the floor of the floating room will be above the current floor level, and by the time you fit the supports for the floating ceiling and the insulation between the existing ceiling and the floating walls, I think the only way around this would be to support the new floating ceiling on something like wire hangers from the beams in the existing ceiling. I am worried that the existing structure wont support the extra weight of the floating ceiling and the insulation that you will need remembering that if there is no decent mass in the ceiling it will be a waste of time. You also need to look at this when supporting the room on the floor beams and floating walls. You will need to get this signed off by a structural engineer of the insurance will be void.

I have another thought that maybe won't be as good as a floating room but will be a big improvement.

Build new internal walls on the original floor, when you get to the ceiling fix 2 extra layers of plaster (the sound proof type) inside the new studio rooms. Then build an internal floating floor in the new studio area. This way you loose a lot less ceiling height and the floating floor reduces sound in and out through the floor. Just a thought.

Now thinking about the room layout, have you thought about thinking outside the box, whey build 2 square / rectangular rooms, have a look at some studio plan ideas and see if you can build something that will sound a whole lot better and use the space better. A quick google search will give you 1000's of ideas.

Alan.
 
Have you thought about how you are going to get equipment into that tracking room? I assume its all got to be brought up the stairs - your latest drawing removed the door directly into the tracking room, but in the original it was not directly across, but offset a few feet. Hope no one wants to bring in a Hammond B3!
 
Have you thought about how you are going to get equipment into that tracking room? I assume its all got to be brought up the stairs - your latest drawing removed the door directly into the tracking room, but in the original it was not directly across, but offset a few feet. Hope no one wants to bring in a Hammond B3!

LOL, when I built my studio the console had to come in through my roller door > store room > on its end through the recording room load in door, and through the control room window (before the glass went in). It weighs over 90kg (200lbs). We thought about building the studio upstairs during design as there is more width there, but the idea of loading up and down stairs was too much. Although gear is still carried up and down to my repair room and band lounge/storeroom over flow :facepalm:

Alan.
 
Hey guys, I appreciate the feedback, but I've spent 2 years planning and building what it already is. It is NOT going to be "ideal", but will be a "quiet" place and dedicated building to "jam" and do some recordings and get some of my 300 original songs over the last 30 years down!! This is NOT going to be a recording business. There will be dedicated equipment (drums, guitars, amps) on-site. If anyone needs to bring stuff, they have to come up stairs, it's as simple as that. Square rooms, loosing height do to floating floor and ceiling have ALL been discussed already. The weight of everything was already taken into account and why my builder friends did it and no expense spared on the structure and it's built like a tank. Even the inspector commented on the final signoff "great job, above and beyond"! You never see that from an inspector, but he's right and everyone comments on it! You will bring no new questions to the design, trust me.

I may flip the Control Room and Live Room 180 degrees rotated and entry door in the larger area for bringing stuff in do to lost head room and only 36" hall space to maximize room size and lost headroom for floated floor and ceiling.

No Hammond B3 will ever be in this room/structure. If something like that is needed, export the files and send to a professional recording studio to cut the tracks and minimize time needed at that studio.

The only question I have is how to fasten those new walls to the ceiling without compromising and re-coupling the room to the structure.

Let me know about the ceiling and thanks in advance.
 
I miss understood a little at first, so you have floating floor and walls but the ceiling is the original ceiling and is not floating.

What I did in a past studio build where we had an underground garage and wanted the walls not coupled to the concrete ceiling was to build the walls slightly short of the ceiling maybe 1/4", then put a neoprene strip between the top on the wall and the ceiling, the fixings were small screws through the top wall stud (and in the case of concrete into plastic plugs) therefore the only sound transfer is through the fixings not the top stud. Worked well enough.

Remember the fixings for the top of the wall to the ceiling, and you need to find beams through the ceiling to fix to, only stop the wall falling over, there is not real weight being held so there is no need for heavy duty fixing. The walls are also supported by the corners and the other walls. If you want to get really fussy, put the fixings through rubber grommets, you don't need to fully tighten the fixing.

Alan.
 
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