'Coloured' preamps for drums

Jye

New member
I typically use 11 mics on my drums. 4 go into RME pres (on a FF800), 1 goes into a Pre73, the rest into an ART tube opto 8.

I am looking for at least another 4 pres. These would go to currently unused line-ins on the RME, and would result in me using less of the ART pres. I really like the sound of the Pre73 and am not looking for transparency/clarity in future preamps.

After a lot of searching it looks like there are no other 'coloured' preamp units in this entry-level professional area that have 4 preamps. And the only unit with 2 preamps seems to be used Vintech stuff. I would rather just get one 4-channel unit as there will be less cords, boxes, transport issues, etc.. and also I would not be paying for separate housings etc for each preamp. Any suggestions on a 4-XLR-in unit with coloured pres at a max of $350 per channel?
 
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Coloured is a weak word, like good, or bad.
Maybe you could describe what you're looking for, with reference to certain mics or sources?

I don't have extensive preamp knowledge, but it might help other users point you in the right direction.

Are you into DIY? You could look at modules like the Auditronics 110?
 
although only slightly coloured, i'm still a fan of the TL Audio 5001 (quad valve preamp). if you drive the pre's they have a nice valvy tone and for £500 it's not too pricey for four pre's
 
Sebatron.

Incredible bang for the buck, especially if you need several channels for drums.
 
Sebatron looks killer.

Sorry if you see some copy->paste jobs from other threads.

I'm not ready to start building modules.

I only understand now that colouration can mean thick, saturated, a rolled-off top end, a slightly broken up sound, and/or an electrification richness (among probably many more things). Heck, this all sounds good. I'd like all of this, but especially the ability to get the thick, saturated sound on drums at certain times.

I hear this can be achieved with the VPM4000 as I read from users that it has the ability to get devastatingly overloaded signals by engaging the -30db pad and daisy chaining the inputs.

How can I drive the N72's or TL 5001? I am not sure if engaging the pad affects the thickness or saturation on these units. As it's on an often loud source being drums, does this mean to drive them the signal is hitting my software in the red?
 
How can I drive the N72's or TL 5001? I am not sure if engaging the pad affects the thickness or saturation on these units. As it's on an often loud source being drums, does this mean to drive them the signal is hitting my software in the red?

on the 5001 it has a separate input gain and output pot so you can easily just drive the input gain and adjust the output so that it's not clipping into your DAW. if the source you're recording is loud hot any way it will be driving the tubes so engaging the pad in this case will just give you a bit more control on either how hard you drive it or if you just want a clean preamp sound. The last time i used the 5001 on drums i just had kick, snare, and a pair of OH's and drove the input on the snare pretty hard to give it a thick, chunky, driven sound and drove it slightly on the overheads (so when there was snare hit the drive light shone very bright) and was very happy with the sound.
 
Sebatron looks killer.


I hear this can be achieved with the VPM4000 as I read from users that it has the ability to get devastatingly overloaded signals by engaging the -30db pad and daisy chaining the inputs.

I have the VPM4000...it's actually still one of my favorite pres for a lot of stuff...though I have never used it for drums, but then, I don't run 11 mics on a kit, so I'm only using 4 (OH Pair, Snare & Kick), and in that situation I actually prefer a very clean preamp with tons of headroom, so for that I always use my CLM Dynamics DB400 preamp, which is not very well know in the USA, only had a short distro run, but it was made in Scotland and considered a top-shelf pre (they also made a killer stereo EQ box DB500, which I also have).

Anyway...I have other pres and have spent time using them, but I am now back again with the Sebatron for lots of my tracking...especially guitars, organ, keys. The input level options are quite huge, and I just love the onboard High and Low EQ options that let you quickly tailor your signal to your desired flavor or at least it will get you right in the ballpark, so you don't have to muck with a lot of EQ later during mixing. It's a no-fuss 3-position switch for Highs and another for Lows....no dialing in of frequency, but the preset choices are great. Bright/Flat/Air on the Highs and Cut/Flat/Boost on the Lows.

Just saw one on eBay the other day for about $1300...which is a great price for 4 preamps.

If mine was hit by a meteor...:D...I would 100% buy another one!!!

But if you really want to mangle your drums...you should also check out the Overstayer FET Compressor. It's a stereo comp...but it is just KILLER for getting all kinds of drive and color out of a drum kit.
It is only around $500...and bring a change of underwear. ;)

There are a couple of other Overstayer comps (I have all three) that are also super.
Their full rack Stereo VCA is on my mix bus permanently.
 
Just saw one on eBay the other day for about $1300...which is a great price for 4 preamps.

Where? I've been looking on ebay for a week..



Ok, as it stands, below are the only preamps that seem to have the sound I am looking for, and at max $350 per channel. They all seem great, but have potential issues.

-Seb VPM4000: It doesn't have an output control. Aside from what I posted earlier (where I may have misunderstood), I'm still unsure if it can be driven hard at the input stage without hitting the red in my DAW. Need to find a used one to come in budget.

-4 x Pre73's: 4 annoying power cords, doesn't rack (or can for a pricey $200 to rack all 4), bit pricey at $400 each for us Australians. If only GAP made a 2-4 channel instead of that DLX...

-4 x SCA N72's: Even if I could find used it would be around $2k for 4 and all the gear to run them. Again, unsure if it can be driven hard at the input stage without hitting the red in my DAW.


The 5001 wasn't mentioned as it seems to be unanimously bashed by its users; many tales of regret there. I don't want to say that it is not worthy, it may be fantastic, I just don't want to take that risk based on what I have read.

If there are any solutions you see, or more alternative preamps, please share. Otherwise i'll pick one and deal with it.
 
Ahhhh...ebay...SEARCH: "Sebatron" :)

Sebatron VMP 4000 e Quad Valve Microphone Preamp Tube Mic Pre EQ Four 4 Channel | eBay

You have a couple of days...no bids so far.

OK...it's $1399...I thought it was $1300, but still not a bad price seeing how they sell for $1700-$1800 new.


-Seb VPM4000: It doesn't have an output control. Aside from what I posted earlier (where I may have misunderstood), I'm still unsure if it can be driven hard at the input stage without hitting the red in my DAW. Need to find a used one to come in budget.

The knobs are the output level controls.

You control the input drive with the 3-position toggle -30, -15, and 0.
So you get your signal nice and hot going into the mic....and use the toggle to set the amount of drive....then set your output with the knob.

I really don't know how hard you're trying to drive the preamps...???...I mean, once you hit obvious distortion, how much more do you think you need when recording drums or whatever...?
Couple that with the right comp...I think you should be able to put plenty of hair on the signal before the DAW.
 
Unfortunately it can't be shipped to Australia.

That sounds relatively simple to use. At certain times, I like the amount of distortion and the vibe I get when my Pre73 gain is at/near max for mic level on drums. I guess this could be termed 'very obvious distortion' :p

The Seb sounds like it can get close. Are you saying that by engaging the toggle to -30db, I would be applying 30db gain again, then (for example) another 30db gain to get the signal hot enough (but still not be in the red in my DAW), resulting in e.g. 60db gain and giving distortion?

This may be a noob question but i've never experimented with pads on preamps and I don't have my gear to test at the moment.
 
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That's ironic...seeing how Sebatron is made in Australia!!! :D
Why not look around there, they should be easy to find.

As far as the controls...-30 will be clean.... 0 will be hitting the input the hardest.
Then...no matter what is happening at the input (-30, -15, or 0)...you control the Output level with the knob.

The three way toggel is your Gain control...the knob your Output control.
Go to their website and check out the specs....

From the manual:

- The pad switch changes the amount of gain available from the valve,
which means more second order harmonics and soft clipping compression (‘valve
warmth’) when driven hard. Depending on input signal levels, it is often possible
to choose any of the Pad settings while keeping the output signal neither too high
nor too low for your recorder through the use of the output level. Using the Pad at
-30dB will give you a clean, transparent signal and a stronger bright/air EQ effect,
while increasing to -15dB and then 0dB pad will make your sound warmer and
possibly even distorted, with gradually less high EQ effect.


- The bright/air High Shelf EQ consists of two musically useful curves at
the extreme high end of the audio spectrum, with bright starting at around 2-4kHz
and air higher again. The frequencies effected are often above hearing ranges,
but affect spatial location. The High Shelf EQ comes before any active gain stage,
which means less noise. Remember that bright/air is interactive with the pad
control, more pad equals more High EQ.

- The deep/lo cut Low Shelf EQ can boost or cut the lower extremes of
the audio range, either cleaning up unnecessary low end noise and rumble or
boosting them for fat, solid sounds. These ultra low frequencies can be difficult to
control, with slow rise and fall times and a lot of power contained within the signal.
Careful attention has been paid to these frequencies, with plenty of headroom
allowed, which means fatter bass for you!

- The phantom off/on switch provides +48V phantom power to the XLR
input when required.

- Phase reverse can be used to allow for phase differences between
microphones when using multi mic techniques. If the combination of microphones
(e.g. top and bottom of snare) is sounding thin or weak, try reversing the phase.

- The output level controls the signal level from the valve to the discrete
Class A output buffer stage.
 
If you can build (or have a mate who can), have a look at JLM Audio in Brisbane. The Baby Animal series has lots of "personality" options, but may somewhat exceed your $350 per channel budget. (Be aware that the JLM pricing is exclusive of GST).

I've bought a 2 channel Baby Animal pre, with John Hardy 990c opamps, and Carnhill in and out transformers. Unfortunately, I won't have time to build it for another couple of months :(

Paul
 
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