Ceiling Prep

[jimmys69]

That's the spirit Jimmy69. Section A. is the misleading statement that is opinion and B. is widely disputed from both sides in terms of cancer and I doubt you are an authority on the matter who can dismiss it but the lung disease section is fairly off target with styrene clearly an issue recognized by many medical authorities.
"The concerns of fiberglass becoming airborne are not an issue if contained. A. In fact, it is not even an issue if you didn't. B. Fiberglass does not cause cancer or lung disease as so many portray. It is however irritating to most. Rockwool is likely even worse in that respect. I personally don't have much aversion to either as I have had years of working with both."
If you can see your way clear to modify or remove those sections so that you're don't appear to be supporting uncontained fibers I'd be happy for you to remove my protestations.

Ok, I retract statement A. I should have stated 'IMO' it is likely not even an issue if one doesn't disturb the fibers. Hope everyone who goes to a Home Depot doesn't die from cancer from the insulation stocked there.

 

[Mack Caster]

[MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION], for what its worth, I think you do a good job moderating. As far as recent reports go,

1. "The best judgement was that in 36 (13.0%), pulmonary opacities or pleural abnormalities were due to fibreglass. CONCLUSION--Commercial rotary spun fibreglass used for insulating appliances appears to produce human disease that is similar to asbestosis". Read more ............

2. "Little information is known about the health effects caused by small fibers. Smaller fibers have the ability to reach the lower part of the lungs increasing the chance of adverse health effects". Read more ..........

3. Fiberglass is one of the most widely used insulating materials in the world, despite concerns that it may cause cancer. The National Toxicology Program first ruled that fiberglass is “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen,” then revised the ruling to include only certain glass wool fibers (those that are inhalable), which excludes fiberglass. Consumer groups are challenging the revised label, claiming the formula the EPA and NIH used to determine carcinogenicity diluted the results, making them look like fiberglass is safe when it really isn’t. Animal studies have shown that certain glass fibers can cause tumors in animals’ lungs and other tissue sites, while cell studies have shown that certain fiberglass fibers may cause damage to DNA". Read more ..........

4. "A couple of decades ago, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), a medical wing of the Department of Labor, made an alarming discovery regarding man made mineral fibers (fiberglass). They determined that the fibers created DNA damage, which leads to chronic illness and is carcinogenic.

An anti-regulatory Congress that encouraged the rapid rise of biotech industries, such as Monsanto, threatened to abolish NIOSH around that time. Meanwhile, the large suppliers of fiberglass insulation claim they've done their own research.

They publicly assert all is well and reports to the contrary are based on faulty research. The foxes are in the hen house". Read more ..........

 

[jimmys69]

Very seldom do I feel the need to go "Apeshit" as you put it and at this time both myself and [MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION], have made peace with each other. Now here are the facts.

1. This post was about smooth or textured ceilings. If someone ever tells you that smooth is better than textured, or that it makes no difference, they simply have not done their homework.

2. The issue was never about using wrapped panels. It was over tearing down the ceiling and placing breathable cloth in place of the drywall.

3. Everyone keeps saying everything is fine as long as the insulation is not disturbed. Well, if I have follow some of the advice given, it would be constantly disturbed, this is why.

My house was built in 1992 with a 4/12 pitch gable roof. It has ridge vents on 90% of the roof line and it has soffit vents as well as two powered gable vents to expel hot air in the attic. It has two layers of R-30 UN-wrapped/UN-faced pink fiberglass insulation. There is just about a constant air flow inside the attic and when I go up in it, the fiberglass dust particles can be seen 90% of the time. That is why when I need to go in the attic, it is always after the sun goes down and the heat is gone, and yes, I do wear a mask.

The bottom line is this. I have read the reports and I do believe it can/may cause breathing hazards. I did not learn this from this community, I learned about it many years ago during safety meetings. I was in the US Army assigned to A-1 Tanks, who at the time, still used asbestos for the engine liners as well as the heater system that supplied heat to the tank crew. I was stationed at Fort Carson Colorado and if nothing else worked on your tank, you made sure the heater system went above and beyond. -20 below 0 and surrounded by steel, it gets very cold, very fast. Now fast forward 20 years and look at how asbestos effects the human body. Anybody want to dispute that?

My brother in law is in the hospital getting ready to have his right leg amputated due to the medicine he was on for diabetes. 10 years ago, this med was so highly recommended, it has now spawned class action lawsuits over it's primary role in the cause of these amputations.

Anybody old enough to remember when the big tobacco companies had to go in front of congress because their inner memos were leaked about how they knew smoking causes cancer and yet they hid it from the public for decades? How about when new medicines are released and 10 years later you watch ads on TV asking if you had been a victim of their product? Anybody want to dispute that?

I am not a paranoid person nor am I a "Conspiracy Minded" individual. When it comes to my health, the health of my family or anyone who may come into my home, I can promise you, I will never seek this type of advice from a Home Recording Community. It is my studio and I will build it to the best of my ability using the material that I have researched as completely as could be done.

In closing, I really think this thread should be locked or deleted by the admin. Now for those of you who may not know, when you build your leafs for your studio and you place your insulation in between the studs, you should place a bead of sound proofing caulking over each top and bottom plate as well as the studs. This will help with soundproofing but more importantly, it will make sure that nothing inside the walls, can come inside the room. Peace Out!

I do understand your concerns man. And my sincere prayers for your brother...

I must say that there is a big difference if placing insulation on an open roof where convection is an issue. I would not have recommended a cloth cover for a ceiling that actually an attic. That would be just silly and stupid. In a space (like mine that is in a basement) there is no air movement within the walls to create a hazard. The fibers are contained.

And yes, we are on the same page and at peace with each other. My neighbor and good friend has mesothelioma from years of working with asbestos. He can't even spend time outside without an oxygen tank.

The materials used now do not have the same carcinogenic shit that there was 50 years ago. But at the same time we don't want to use them in a situation where the material can be introduced to the air we breathe.

I never meant to say that the materials are harmless. Only to say that they will be harmless if used correctly. I should have made that more clear I suppose.

It happens sometimes that we assume situations and give the same basic advice, maybe we don't know the exact situation.


In the end here I just wish we all get along and learn from each other. That is what this community is for.

 

[Mack Caster]

[MENTION=104126]jimm[/MENTION]s69, I think that if I had explained my lay out better Jimmy, you would have never given the advice you did. I take full responsibility for the misunderstanding and like I said, as far as a Mod goes, you do a great job!

 

[Steenamaroo]

You take issue with me making an effort to have people note, through a WARNING headline, that they were subject to information that was not only wrong but possibly dangerous to their health?
Really?
Click-bait?
Really?
The error was with the incorrect information posted which, in & of itself, impugned the poster & his/her status as a Moderator.

WARNING WARNING
A moderator is suggesting that someone ignore safety issues, (airborne fiberglass).

This is a misleading representation of what happened.
That's what I take issue with.

Jimmy, as I suspected, has been gracious in accepting criticism.
Perhaps you can be gracious in accepting that there was no real need to go for his throat like that.

 

[Mack Caster]

This is a misleading representation of what happened.
That's what I take issue with.

Jimmy, as I suspected, has been gracious in accepting criticism.
Perhaps you can be gracious in accepting that there was no real need to go for his throat like that.

Stern, you are nothing but an instigator. [MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION], please delete this entire post, or lock it. If you choose not to do so, than IMHO, you are NOT looking out for this community. I wished to God I never asked this simple question. Sent from my iPhone and ready to leave this Fing Community.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Unbelievable.

 

[jimmys69]

Stern, you are nothing but an instigator. [MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION], please delete this entire post, or lock it. If you choose not to do so, than IMHO, you are NOT looking out for this community. I wished to God I never asked this simple question. Sent from my iPhone and ready to leave this Fing Community.

What?