Ceiling Prep

Yes acoustic treatment involves compromises when a small room is all you have. That is why there is a market for absorption panels. They are much cheaper built if someone has simple construction skills. And there are also ways to build with less possibility of fibers coming out. And also way cheaper ability to control the acoustics of a room if you have open cavities and the ability to build within the walls.

To Mack:

I am sorry you felt like I was trying to be a dick and hurt your family/clients. I am almost 50 myself and I am also quite chill. I did not mean to fuck with you in any way. This is the standard way to do acoustic treatment so I shared what I know. Not sure why you took it as me offending you. Maybe just a bad day for us to talk....

Truce man. Hopefully we can find what works for you without having a weird internet argument. :)

Discussion of what is standard practice in acoustic treatment is always open here. There is no 'best' option for any given situation. I just know what works for me and I have also spent time and money speaking with professionals that build studios for a living.

I have had the benefit of being a moderator of this site so I have been blessed with getting professional advice from studio builders without charge. That only means that I have had time working with the professionals that directed me in my builds that I share with other members. I only give advice from my experience based on what I have learned and the results from use of that advice in my own studio.

I am lucky in the ability to have a large basement that allows me to treat multiple rooms for their individual purpose. But I still have 8' ceilings. We do what we can.

So now I am babbling. But dude, I am just trying to help.
 
WARNING WARNING
A moderator is suggesting that someone ignore safety issues, (airborne fiberglass).
"How does fiberglass affect your health?
Studies have shown inhaling these fibers can reduce lung function and cause inflammation in animals and humans.1 A study published in 2006 found that, independent of other environmental hazards and respiratory problems, fiberglass altered components of the lungs in men working in glass fiber-reinforced plastic processing.1 Fiberglass can cause skin, eye and throat irritation. At higher exposure levels, fiberglass also has been associated with skin rashes and difficulty in breathing.
Fiberglass emits a synthetic material called styrene, which is a possible carcinogenic according to the IACR and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.2 At high levels, styrene can cause tiredness, concentration and balance problems, and irritation of the eyes, nose and throat. More information on the health effects of styrene can be found on the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) website."
Being a moderator isn't simply about moderating the behaviour of contributors: it is also to ensure that opinion is expressed as such. Further, a moderator ought to be moderate in their own assertions particularly with regard to health & safety as well as discrimination etc. lest they bring the forum &/or its owners into conflict with laws within a given legislative area.
 
"I have had the benefit of being a moderator of this site so I have been blessed with getting professional advice from studio builders without charge. That only means that I have had time working with the professionals that directed me in my builds that I share with other members. I only give advice from my experience based on what I have learned and the results from use of that advice in my own studio."
I think you ought to reread this section Jimmy69. It suggests cronyism at best or some previously undisclosed benefit achieved through your management (?) of others OR an editorial process that is open to purchase. Perhaps you could re-word it to avoid the possible interpretation?
 
Either that or he's here a lot and gets to talk to a lot of professionals...

but yeah, off with his head. We'll see you in court, Jimmy.

Night all.
 
That's not me being a troll - that's simply me being alarmed at a moderator telling someone to not worry about airborne fiberglass. Steenmaroo, you may not consider it an issue but as a long, long time trained and up to speed OHS/WHS representative on work sites I take such things seriously. The responsibilities of a moderator are greater, in terms of the burden of safety and accuracy, than those of a contributor.
My post regarding editorial bias may be considered as "trolling" but is simple a response to the moderators statement which puzzled me.
 
Oh, it's not that I don't consider it an issue. It's more that it didn't happen.
Jimmy said that airborne fibres wouldn't be an issue if covered with material, and most likely wouldn't even be an issue un-covered, unless disturbed.

If the advice is flawed that's cool. I've no doubt Jimmy would welcome someone pointing that out, but let's not pretend he's "suggesting that someone ignore safety issues".

People have been recommending fibreglass/rockwool panels with cloth/burlap covering on here for years. No one went apeshit about it prior to Mack's arrival.
 
Please read the statement more carefully Steenmaroo...
jimmys69 said:
The concerns of fiberglass becoming airborne are not an issue if contained. In fact, it is not even an issue if you didn't. Fiberglass does not cause cancer or lung disease as so many portray. It is however irritating to most. Rockwool is likely even worse in that respect. I personally don't have much aversion to either as I have had years of working with both.
Click to expand...
 
rayc said:
WARNING WARNING
A moderator is suggesting that someone ignore safety issues, (airborne fiberglass).
"How does fiberglass affect your health?
Studies have shown inhaling these fibers can reduce lung function and cause inflammation in animals and humans.1 A study published in 2006 found that, independent of other environmental hazards and respiratory problems, fiberglass altered components of the lungs in men working in glass fiber-reinforced plastic processing.1 Fiberglass can cause skin, eye and throat irritation. At higher exposure levels, fiberglass also has been associated with skin rashes and difficulty in breathing.
Fiberglass emits a synthetic material called styrene, which is a possible carcinogenic according to the IACR and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.2 At high levels, styrene can cause tiredness, concentration and balance problems, and irritation of the eyes, nose and throat. More information on the health effects of styrene can be found on the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) website."
Being a moderator isn't simply about moderating the behaviour of contributors: it is also to ensure that opinion is expressed as such. Further, a moderator ought to be moderate in their own assertions particularly with regard to health & safety as well as discrimination etc. lest they bring the forum &/or its owners into conflict with laws within a given legislative area.
Click to expand...


Yep. So when working with such materials in building traps you take the necessary precautions. DUH!

I never suggested someone ignore safety issues. You made that up or misunderstood.
 
jimmys69 said:
Yep. So when working with such materials in building traps you take the necessary precautions. DUH!

I never suggested someone ignore safety issues. You made that up or misunderstood.
Click to expand...

Oh dear Jimmy, you are being disingenuous in a terribly transparent manner. Read the emboldened section of the quote I lifted from your post. You may have quibbled & qualified a little later on BUT your remarks precede such and are to the effect that there's no health issue with airborne fibers and that you've had little issue yourself. You really should accept that you, as a moderator, made an inappropriate and unsafe assertion and edit the comment.
Never, Jimmy, is a long, long time covering the past, present & future.
robot.gif
 
Steenamaroo said:
I understand your point completely.

I take issue with the click-bait headline.
Click to expand...

You take issue with me making an effort to have people note, through a WARNING headline, that they were subject to information that was not only wrong but possibly dangerous to their health?
Really?
Click-bait?
Really?
The error was with the incorrect information posted which, in & of itself, impugned the poster & his/her status as a Moderator.
 
rayc said:
Oh dear Jimmy, you are being disingenuous in a terribly transparent manner. Read the emboldened section of the quote I lifted from your post. You may have quibbled & qualified a little later on BUT your remarks precede such and are to the effect that there's no health issue with airborne fibers and that you've had little issue yourself. You really should accept that you, as a moderator, made an inappropriate and unsafe assertion and edit the comment.
Never, Jimmy, is a long, long time covering the past, present & future.
View attachment 100437
Click to expand...



Seriously man, why are you perusing this as a fight? When contained properly, with cloth or whatever, there is no issue with insulation being an issue. If there were, OSHA would be all over it.... I work on construction sites for a living so I am well aware of what is required.

When in my teens I worked in a sheet metal shop where we used a version of fiberglass that would make most employees freak out. But we used the appropriate safeguards to avoid the inhalation of the materials. That didn't mean that we didn't use panty hose and cold water in the approved wash sinks to remove the fibers from our arms. Especially in this situation there was heat involved in the adhesion process, so any exposed skin was more susceptible because the pores of the skin were open.

I have had much experience with working with fiberglass and rockwool products. You use them with appropriate caution while fabricating with them. Once contained, there is no proven health results from it's use.

Again, I suppose you misread what I stated. It was not my point to say that fiberglass is not an irritant.

What comment shall I edit to make you happy? I will surely do so.
 
This Post Got Way Off Topic!

Steenamaroo said:
No one went apeshit about it prior to Mack's arrival.
Click to expand...

Very seldom do I feel the need to go "Apeshit" as you put it and at this time both myself and [MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION], have made peace with each other. Now here are the facts.

1. This post was about smooth or textured ceilings. If someone ever tells you that smooth is better than textured, or that it makes no difference, they simply have not done their homework.

2. The issue was never about using wrapped panels. It was over tearing down the ceiling and placing breathable cloth in place of the drywall.

3. Everyone keeps saying everything is fine as long as the insulation is not disturbed. Well, if I have follow some of the advice given, it would be constantly disturbed, this is why.

My house was built in 1992 with a 4/12 pitch gable roof. It has ridge vents on 90% of the roof line and it has soffit vents as well as two powered gable vents to expel hot air in the attic. It has two layers of R-30 UN-wrapped/UN-faced pink fiberglass insulation. There is just about a constant air flow inside the attic and when I go up in it, the fiberglass dust particles can be seen 90% of the time. That is why when I need to go in the attic, it is always after the sun goes down and the heat is gone, and yes, I do wear a mask.

The bottom line is this. I have read the reports and I do believe it can/may cause breathing hazards. I did not learn this from this community, I learned about it many years ago during safety meetings. I was in the US Army assigned to A-1 Tanks, who at the time, still used asbestos for the engine liners as well as the heater system that supplied heat to the tank crew. I was stationed at Fort Carson Colorado and if nothing else worked on your tank, you made sure the heater system went above and beyond. -20 below 0 and surrounded by steel, it gets very cold, very fast. Now fast forward 20 years and look at how asbestos effects the human body. Anybody want to dispute that?

My brother in law is in the hospital getting ready to have his right leg amputated due to the medicine he was on for diabetes. 10 years ago, this med was so highly recommended, it has now spawned class action lawsuits over it's primary role in the cause of these amputations.

Anybody old enough to remember when the big tobacco companies had to go in front of congress because their inner memos were leaked about how they knew smoking causes cancer and yet they hid it from the public for decades? How about when new medicines are released and 10 years later you watch ads on TV asking if you had been a victim of their product? Anybody want to dispute that?

I am not a paranoid person nor am I a "Conspiracy Minded" individual. When it comes to my health, the health of my family or anyone who may come into my home, I can promise you, I will never seek this type of advice from a Home Recording Community. It is my studio and I will build it to the best of my ability using the material that I have researched as completely as could be done.

In closing, I really think this thread should be locked or deleted by the admin. Now for those of you who may not know, when you build your leafs for your studio and you place your insulation in between the studs, you should place a bead of sound proofing caulking over each top and bottom plate as well as the studs. This will help with soundproofing but more importantly, it will make sure that nothing inside the walls, can come inside the room. Peace Out!
 
That's the spirit Jimmy69. Section A. is the misleading statement that is opinion and B. is widely disputed from both sides in terms of cancer and I doubt you are an authority on the matter who can dismiss it but the lung disease section is fairly off target with styrene clearly an issue recognized by many medical authorities.
"The concerns of fiberglass becoming airborne are not an issue if contained. A. In fact, it is not even an issue if you didn't. B. Fiberglass does not cause cancer or lung disease as so many portray. It is however irritating to most. Rockwool is likely even worse in that respect. I personally don't have much aversion to either as I have had years of working with both."
If you can see your way clear to modify or remove those sections so that you're don't appear to be supporting uncontained fibers I'd be happy for you to remove my protestations.
 
[MENTION=49953]rayc[/MENTION]

And also I am genuinely curious about the studies you refer to. Are there some that are newer than 11 years old? I am sure the products made today have different standards than those a decade ago. I would like to know myself as I have children and a desire to know how I might be affecting them. Please share them with us.

Seriously. Google some shit and share with me so I do not make the mistake as a moderator of a forum to disappoint you and risk the health of the community or my daughter...

I am truly curious for some real facts. I sure haven't heard anything that makes using various forms of fiberglass/rockwool dangerous other than the irritation-especially those that already have breathing issues. But then just breathing air seems to cause cancer now....

I appreciate the fact that you somehow think I have stature/obligation to other members by being a moderator. I must laugh. We are likely the most abused members of this site. Not even kidding. I am just another member of the forum that has my own life, my own morals, my own kids, and I spend time here because I actually give a shit about other people. Why else would I moderate a site without pay? I have no agenda. Well, not until someone calls me out as not doing my job correctly. You can have this job if you so desire. I basically just told you where you can stick something.
 
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