Building a studio into a hillside. What shape should it be?

[Deathvalleydog]

...as odd as they are compared to conventional houses, there is still absolute symmetry inside.

The key phrase was inspired by a Hobbit House, which is mostly about the fact that it will be dug into a hillside and have a living roof. But it's also true that most of the houses you see like that (real and LOTR) tend to have a roundish/organic look ... not a lot of sharp angles, so that's what I was imagining and what got me trying odd shapes.

...but I suggest you ask some guys who actually build real studios, and/or do some research rather than just making assumptions about what you think "should work"...etc.

...aaaaaand why do you think I started this post?
That's pretty much exactly 100% precisely what I'm doing

 

[Deathvalleydog]

Looks good to me, but you still need a round door.

Totally ...

 

[miroslav]

...aaaaaand why do you think I started this post?
That's pretty much exactly 100% precisely what I'm doing

OK...but you're still focusing on doing the weird shaped space.

I get it, you would have to dig out more of the hillside...I'm just saying if you're going to build from scratch and spend the time/money/effort...mmm...go the extra steps.

 

[Deathvalleydog]

OK...but you're still focusing on doing the weird shaped space.

I get it, you would have to dig out more of the hillside...I'm just saying if you're going to build from scratch and spend the time/money/effort...mmm...go the extra steps.

I'm absolutely committed to doing whatever steps it takes to do it right.

The initial focus on the "weird shaped space" was born of my understanding that avoiding parallel walls was the thing to do. I figured a weird shape would actually be perfect and I'd be starting out one step ahead, since most recording studios (especially home studios) are built inside existing structures and don't have the option to be an unusual shape.

But what I'm now learning (through responses to this post and reading various books) is that having a weird shape actually creates its own set of problems ... not the least of which is that most of the resources for figuring out modes and things is geared towards more standard-shaped rooms, presumably because that is what most folks have.

And then there is the hillside I'll be digging into which---due to various existing underground utilities---actually doesn't lend itself to a standard, rectangular building. So ideally I need to come up with something that fits the space AND will work acoustically.

The Hobbit House aspect is just for fun. I mean seriously ... how often do you get to build a building into a hillside? Life is way too short to not have fun

Clearly I've got much research still to do before I finalize a design and break-out the back-hoe ... and that's why I'm here

That all being said, what are your thoughts on the pentagon-ish thing I drew a few posts back?

 

[miroslav]

That all being said, what are your thoughts on the pentagon-ish thing I drew a few posts back?

I thought I was pretty obvious that I didn't care for it...for a studio.
If you were just building a living space into the hillside...then hell yeah, maker as oddball as your imagination lets you,
For a studio...and like I said, feel free to look at as many real studios as you like in magazines, on the web, or in person...I think it needs to be more straightforward. You can still avoid the acoustic issues (no parallel walls, etc) but again, that's usually a matter of inches, so to the eye, it still looks like a more typical space.

Since you can't dig into the hill any more...have you considering building more of it outside of the hill, that way you can control the shape more?

 

[RFR]

As far as shape, why reinvent the wheel? Most are rectangular or have the illusion of being rectangular. And as Miro says, the science of treatment has been sorted out with the traditional designs.

As to the door? Well, you should know where I stand on that.

 

[Deathvalleydog]

I thought I was pretty obvious that I didn't care for it...for a studio.
If you were just building a living space into the hillside...then hell yeah, maker as oddball as your imagination lets you,
For a studio...and like I said, feel free to look at as many real studios as you like in magazines, on the web, or in person...I think it needs to be more straightforward. You can still avoid the acoustic issues (no parallel walls, etc) but again, that's usually a matter of inches, so to the eye, it still looks like a more typical space.

Since you can't dig into the hill any more...have you considering building more of it outside of the hill, that way you can control the shape more?

There really isn't the space to build more of it outside of the hill.

But what, specifically, do you find wrong with that pentagon shape? Why couldn't it work well for a studio? What would the problems be?

 

[Atkron205]

here is a link to one of the members websites,

http://www.jhbrandt.net/

John really knows his stuff. he also has some good videos on you tube. I think he has some sticky's here but I cant find them I really cant give advice because most things I have done have been wrong.

 

[gecko zzed]

But what, specifically, do you find wrong with that pentagon shape? Why couldn't it work well for a studio? What would the problems be?

I, personally, can't see any problems with a pentagon. It has the bi-lateral symmetry that is important for a control room.

I don't recall whether you were going to have separate control and live rooms, but if so,the shape of the live room is not as critical as the control room. If you are just having one room in which to do everything, then that whole room needs bi-lateral symmetry.


Here's a pentagon:

 

[jimmys69]

here is a link to one of the members websites,

John H. Brandt Acoustic Designs

John really knows his stuff. he also has some good videos on you tube. I think he has some sticky's here but I cant find them I really cant give advice because most things I have done have been wrong.

Absolutely contact John. He would be the one I would recommend to answer your questions. He has answered many for me without charge.

I recall him stating something about 23 degree angles or not effective (don't quote me there).

 

[miroslav]

I, personally, can't see any problems with a pentagon. It has the bi-lateral symmetry that is important for a control room.

Yes...that control room pentagon is perfectly symmetrical...though I wonder how the two angled back walls would affect the acoustics with the monitors aimed at them?

I've just never seen an actual studio control room with that shape. I've seen many designs in magazines for top studios, and I just have to wonder that maybe there's a reason none of the designers went with shapes like that. They were all basically 4-walled in various rectangular shapes.

 

[Jonesey9]

That being the case, what do you think of pentagon vs heptagon? And in both instances all the inner angles and wall lengths would be different. Here's a seven-sided one I've been playing with.

View attachment 95603

The problem with these shapes is that no matter where you put your monitors, they aren't going to sit equidistant from your walls.

Try something like this (edit to suit your space):

 

[Deathvalleydog]

The problem with these shapes is that no matter where you put your monitors, they aren't going to sit equidistant from your walls.

Thanks

The second shape I posted (pentagon) is similar to the control room of this one in that it has bi-lateral symmetry. I understand the need for symmetry in any room that will be used for mixing, and at this point I'm not sure if I have the space to build a separate control room or if it will just be one main room that gets used for both.

Still have a lot to figure out ...

 

[Deathvalleydog]

John really knows his stuff.....

Yes, so it would seem! I contacted him and he got right back to me. He's super busy right now but says he'll check out this thread ... curious to see what his ideas are, but in general he seems to have the same reservations with weird shapes as most of the folks on here

 

[rayc]

Make a BIG set of joined Gobos that you can pull out easily to make your mixing space balanced.
The round door, I'm afraid, is obligatory.

 

[fireflyva]

I think the whole idea of putting a studio in the side of a hill is great! The entire concept is so cool. I'd imagine dirt would be a great sound absorber too....I think I could live in a hill....

 

[TooMuchGear]

I don't claim to be an acoustical expert, however, would there be an audio advantage to having at least one end of the studio be ellipse shaped, or one end of an egg shape? To me it seems that it would behoove you to do a computer rendering of it and see if there are enough benefits to warrant building it that way?

Again, for what it's worth...I offer it as someone speculating.

 

[gecko zzed]

If you do a google image search on control room design, there are many irregular but bi-laterally symmetrical layouts, as well as conventional rectangular layouts. I didn't see any with curved walls, though there were a few with nearly-curved walls. For no particular reason, I would be wary of curved walls.

 

[mjbphotos]

Curved walls are a PITA to build, too!

 

[jhbrandt]

Deathvalleydog,

I understand your situation... You ARE getting some good advice from the members here.

If I understand correctly; you want a place where you can practice AND record AND mix. We've done many one room studios and they work great for this.
You must make the room workable as a control room first. And if done correctly it will do just fine for everything else that you want.
1. Symmetry
2. Zero focusing shapes
3. Most common and most predictable shape will be the rectangular cuboid.
Please go to my resources page and get my latest control room criteria... and please excuse some the very technical terms. If you need clarification let me know.
Resources - John H. Brandt Acoustic Designs
It's right under Articles, the fourth link down.
Cheers,
John