Building 703 panels... (how?) And Treating Small Room

ThaArtist

New member
I've read a few DIY walkthroughs on how to build 703 type panels... Some different then others..

I read somewhere to use a piece of ply wood and then frame the edges and put 703 inside the frame and wrap in cloth... well i also read that framming then edges causes more reflections instead of absorbing...

So I was thinking maybe getting a piece of plywood...

(how thick do you think?)

And then just glueing 703 to it and wraping that and the 703 in cloth so that the edges are 703 and not wood? What do you think?

Another question is...

my room echos horribly! its 10ft x 11ft x 8ft ... i plan on putting two big panels on the ceiling but I'm wondering how thick... i can only get 2 inch 703 so maybe double that up for 4" ?

Then im gonna treat the 3 glass windows and add two bass traps... SOUND GOOD or what?

Thanks ahead of time...
 
Welcome to the forums Artist.

DO NOT use a plywood back unless you absolutely must (on something like window plugs). If you frame thes out with 1x4 you'll be fine. You can put a brace across the back or some corner strapping but leave the back open if at all possible.

You can bore holes in the side to expose more material to absorbtion if you choose and don't mind the extra work. If you hang the reflection point panels appropriately, the places you CARE about reflecting will be on the face so it won't matter. Your call.

For bass absorbers, definitely do 4" thick at a minimum. Straddle the corners if you can.

For a room your size, you'll need a LOT of broadband control. There simply isn't enough space for the luxury of 1-2" panels here for this and 4" panels there for that. Pretty much everything will need to deal with the bass. Then the trick is NOT doing too much to the mids and highs. FRK or a DIY with kraft paper will help with that.

Bryan
 
Hey Bryan,

I'm kind of confused by your post... I planned on hanging two 2'x8'x4" on the ceiling and then building some more for the windows (which i pmed you about but it would cost too much that way...)...

I'm not sure what you meant by plugs but what i plan to do is simply build panels that fit the glass size of the window and fasten it to the window somehow with something removable so it wont damage the glass or be a pain in the ass to remove...

so im a little bit confused now..

The tutorials I seen said to use plywood for the backer... and then place 703 in the middle... frame it out with wood(one said to put pieces aruond the frame then as to try and hide the wood to cause less reflections)... then cloth it...


So oh, say.... for the ceiling... i got these two big panels i want to build 2'x8'x4"... how should i do this?

And then for bass traps... my corners, its impossible to do anything to them except where they meet the ceiling and even then the doors get in the way... So i'd have to do blocks that were 11" instead of the standard 12" :(

What are your suggestions... Do you remember my post and what the room looks like?

heres the pics again...

The windows I want to cover: (speaker monitors are in front of windows)
studio01.jpg


One of the back corners which is where the mic is, so I'll end up treating that whole corner, so I'm trying to figure out which Auralex studio foam to use for that... Any suggestion? THye have so many different kinds... :(
studio02.jpg


The other back corner is where another door resides... lots of doors in this room... sucks but im doin what i can with what i have... :)

ANY suggestions and answers to my questions... I would be so pleased....

I need to hit you up about purchasing some 703 too caseu i read what you said in the other postn i made that you have it and ship it cheaper possibly... So i'll contact you as soon as I KNOW HOW TO BUILD THIS STUFF! grr

:)
 
For a bass trap you could fill the bit at the stairs with 4-6" 703 and it'd act as a mega bass-trap. You could build it so it's easily manoverable. Look here where i suggested this before. Build a frame out of 4"x1" timber, to the size of the space. Staple or nail material to one side put the 703, rockwool, whatever you use in the frame and staple material to the front. Don't use plywood, most of the absorbtion is caused by the space behind the bass-trap/absorber.
 
For the ceiling you don't want to frame with anything(you don't want the whole thing crashing down on you if whatever is holding it up fails do you?) read here. There is also info on all other things you will need.
 
When I said a plug, I was thinking you had a recessed window. If you don't, just build a panel like you said but a little bigger than the window. Put a lip on the top back edge to it can go just above the window trim. Put some good L Hooks into the studs above the window. This way, you can move it up and down easily with little permanent change to the room.

For bass control, plan on a couple of the wall ceiling intersections straddling the corner.

On the ceiling, there is no way that I would do 2'x8'x4" thick. That's too much all in one place in that small room. You'd be better off with a nice rug on the floor (that can be removed as needed for tracking/mixing) and some targeted reflection panels - 1 on the ceiling, 2-3 on the walls strategically.

Same amount of material, better usage.

Oh, and there's no problem framing things as long as you plan properly for your attachment methods. GOOD plant hooks up through the ceiling and 'eyes' into the panel back work great, are easy to remove, are cheap, and are very sturdy.

Bryan
 
OK thanks for all the help so far...

I think I got a better idea of what to do now. My biggest concern with this room is to get the very best possible recordings with what I have to work with. (IE. No rebuilding walls, etc.)

I'm posting some pictures so that maybe someone could help me figure out HOW big of pieces to put on the ceiling and where. My monitors are not centered in the room, but where they are is going to have to do because I can't have them centered. It just won't work with the rooms design.

So with that said, should I offcenter the ceiling pads so they are in front of the monitors or still center them?

Also, what should I do about the recording area? What type of auralex should I use for behind the mic? What about the corners exactly?

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At the bit where you say "door will be placed here" you could install one of my designs. If you do not need isolation, and are only looking for (bass)absorbtion then you could do the "Mega Bass-trap" idea. If you need isolation, but also want a bass trap, you could do the "Mega bass-trap/isolation" idea, which gives you the option of using the staircase as a mega bass trap, or having a good isolation door. What i have not shown in the picture attatched, is that you would install an MDF door on both sides(on the other make it go the other way, because the banister, and put 2 handles, one to open the isolation door and one to open and shut the whole door), to give a mass-air(insulation)-mass setup. You will want to use magnets as it gives a good seal and holds the door in place with no need for a latch. You will need someone to open the isolation door on the stair-side (can't think of any way round this, unless you build some kind of mechanical system) Hope this helps :D
 

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you could probably tack material covered 2" 703 to the window frame over the windows, which can be easily removed. The ceiling you will want the cloud to be halfway between your speakers and mixing position, and same with the broadband absorbers on the walls(one will be your bass trap door). For your recording corner, just do a bass trap idea, read here. This should absorb at all audible frequencies and you can make it 8'x1', or whatever size you need, to be placed diagonally in the corner.
 
I'd seriously consider doing the bass absorbtion on the wall/ceiling corners so you can get good symmetry (since they'll be broadband) and also much more surface area (which you'll need definitely) without sacrificing floorspace. Try if at all possible to keep them 2' wide on the narrower dimension. Not only will this give you more square footage but also puts the absorbtion farther away from the boundary to help extend the absorbtion down lower.

If you must keep your mix position in the corner, I'd definitely do as much of those 2 walls by the mix as you can - at least from 2' to 6' high.

Notes about the ceiling absorber are absolutely correct. In your room, I'd make them 4" thick too for some additional broadband as your bass control options are limited.
 
If you install the door basstrap, it should be fine. Knightfly said before, when i suggested it, that it'd be like having an open window, except without the sound leakage. The person i suggested it to had a 12' room on the other side of the door and knightfly said they'd get peak absorbtion at 23Hz. It doesn't look like the stairsway is 12' deep but it will certainly be deep enough. And yes you want symmetry, but for bass absorbtion it shouldn't matter. It's very difficult to tell what direction bass frequencies are coming from. I think having it in the door will save space/work. What do you think bpape?
 
here is what knightfly said
knightfly said:
If you were to place thick rockwool (like 6" or more) in place of your non-existent "door" between rooms, then you should indeed get a giant bass trap effect; with a 12 foot deep room behind the rockwool, it would peak in absorption at around 23 hZ; but it would also absorb below that, and pretty much everything ABOVE that as well. IOW, it would act about the same as having a large, open window there that everything can pass through, never to be heard again. (this would not be a bad thing)
 
aha, got it. Worked out how you can close the isolation door without getting someone else. Don't build it onto the bass-trap door, build it onto the wall. So you close the isolation door then the basstrap door, and vice versa when going out.
 
This was briefly mentioned, but I don't think covered very well: once you've got the door in there, is it going to be possible to move your monitors out of the corner? It's best to have your monitors equidistant from the left and right wall.
 
Keep in mind that these panels don't need to be framed if you are just making "absorption panels" to hang on the wall. If you are making sealed bass traps... then that's a different story.

When we converted my drummer's garage into a studio/rehearsal space, we made about 40 panels. It would've been expensive and very time consuming to frame them. Instead, we just used iron-on adhesive and wrapped them in fabric like Christmas presents. Then we slapped them on the walls and ceilings with 3" screws and fender washers-- don't even need to hit a stud.

The drummer said he didn't care how it looked and it's his house so I didn't argue. So we just slapped them up without worrying about aesthetics.

Just something to keep in mind...
 

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pandamonk said:
Looks good. How does it sound?

Well... I have to assume the "looks good" part was a healthy dose of sarcasm... lol! :D Because even I don't think it "looks good" and I was a co-designer/co-builder.

But it sounds great. People who know nothing about acoustic treatment, etc. walk into that room and comment on how it "sounds like a studio" in there. When you walk into that room you can hear the difference immediately. I don't know how else to describe it other than those panels seem to "suck" the sound out of the air. You can see in the picture how we've got 4" panels straddling the corners... that's the only bass trapping we've got. I'm sure we could use some more low-end absorption.

We used to practice in that garage when it was untreated and the difference is dramatic.
 
The only reason I mentioned symmetry is because these will not be JUST bass absorbers but will be broadband. He doesn't really have any good way to sit things so that he can do 2 vertical corners. With the ceiling junction, he can potentially do all 4 and not worry about it.

I have no problem with the door thing if you can either make it bass only via a facing of some sort OR do the same thing symmetrically on the other side in appros the same place.
 
Thanks everyone for your help so far. I'm closer now then before to knowing what I need to do.

I don't think I will be able to center my monitors unless its REALLY that bad to me when I start mixing then I guess I could get a monitor stand to put next to the desk and slide everything over which will center it.

Couple more clearing up questions:

- For covering the window... you're recommending taking down the blinds and putting one big 703 panel over all 3 windows and the molding?

- For making the 703 panels can I use adhesive to get the cloth to stay tighter against the 703 (such as spray glue) or will that defeat the purpose? I want them to look nice....Any thoughts?

- For the recording corner, I'm not sure what someone recommeded... You recommended doing a bass trap in that whole corner? I thought Auralex studio foam would be good for that corner since I'm recording in it? Making a bass trap isn't impossible, I just would hate to loose a foot of the recording space.

- Also, any idea for hanging Auralex foam without using their adhesive so I could take these with me when I move? Plus I can't ruin the walls...

BASSTRAPS:
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I will definitely try my hardest to do basstraps in all 4 corners using aurlex's bass cubes and lenrds bass traps.

THE DOOR:
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The door idea... well the stairs are probably about 12 feet down but this isn't my house... so something that extreme I don't think I would want to make if I couldn't take it with me and use it on another door when I move...

I was thinking of getting a solid wood door and then I guess possibly foaming all the doors with aurlex...

BPAPE,
you mentioned foaming the mixing corner... if I can reposition the studio monitors to be centered with my above mentioned idea. Should I still do this?
And do you know any method in which I won't ruin the walls with adhesive and I'd be able to take the foam with me when I leave (anyone for that matter)?
 
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