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Thread: Which brand of resilient clips?

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    Question Which brand of resilient clips?

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    I'm parting out my build and I see a massive difference in pricing on resilient clips. Based in Australia, but these eBay examples show:

    1) Cheap option (Australian no-name brand)
    2) SUPER cheap option (Australian no-name brand)
    3) Premium option (Pliteq GenieClips)

    I suspect that you get what you pay for, like everything especially audio, so I would be tempted to go for the expensive option. However, visually the clips look so similar. Can it be that the premium brands are just better marketed?

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    You very often don't get what you pay for and i think this is one of those times.

    The 'premium' clip charges more, most probably, for certification and compliance (I do this for a living, BTW, so I might be biased.)
    Notice how the description lists UL approval, etc. The clip proper may be little or no different in performance, but the presence of certification, depending on country and oversight agency, might be VERY expensive. Also, it might be an 'architecturally specified' item where you, as a DIYer can use whatever you want, but an institution, or <gasp> government job, cannot. They must use things that are 'approved' - which always comes with a price.

    As they don't seem to list the material or durometer of the isolation insert, chances are excellent that each of the affordable choices is as good as the next. Put it this way, if I needed to plant my flag on the spot to spend money, this wouldn't be it.

    Indeed, the number 1 mistake made in the use of these things are simply using too darned many. Folks often forget that these are not structural and simply suspend panels, so I've seen similar items used at 4X what they actually needed. As every isolator is a noise path, using too many can be as bad as not using them at all. Just a thought.


    Ponder5

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    Hey, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I see your point there. I guess as I'm just using the clip method, rather than double-framing, I was concerned not to cheap out on the clips. I see such a huge variation here in Australia of clip pricing, from $1 per clip for generic looking ones, up to $8/clip for Whisperclips.

    Great point on not overdoing the number of clips used too. Cheers

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    Why don't you look for a supplier instead of Ebay, you could get a much better deal on the price and be able to talk to a consultant about the best option for you. A quick Google turned up severial Australian suppliers.

    Buy the way buy the sound barrier gyprock not the standard stuff.

    Alan.

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    Just out of curiosity...are these clips for attaching the traps to a wall/ceiling...or to put in-between the sheetrock and studs?

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    I've mostly seen these used for hanging ceilings, but could possibly be used for either.
    There's some better ways of attaching sheetrock to studs, like acoustic rail, that provide far more robust isolation. After all, stuff bumps into walls more often than ceilings.

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    Miroslav and Ponder, these clips are used in conjunction with hat channel to isolate plasterboard walls and ceiling from framing. It's used in-lieu of using a double-framing technique.

    Ponder, I wonder where your above advice comes from if you're not familiar with the product? Rod Gervais' recommendations would considerably contradict what you're saying about 'acoustic rail' providing better isolation - in fact the industry has generally moved away from resilient channel (as it's referred to) in the past few years due to installation errors such as shorting/flanking channel with screws.
    Last edited by tombarton; 13 Hours Ago at 16:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tombarton View Post
    Ponder, I wonder where your above advice comes from if you're not familiar with the product? Rod Gervais' recommendations would considerably contradict what you're saying about 'acoustic rail' providing better isolation - in fact the industry has generally moved away from resilient channel (as it's referred to) in the past few years due to installation errors such as shorting/flanking channel with screws.
    As I don't speak for the industry as you do, you may have to live in mystery about the origin of my advice.

    And as you admit, any move away from railing "due to installation errors" are also beyond my purview because I have it installed it correctly and can tell the difference.

    I will, however, take your vast and expansive experience as fully informed. I haven't built a studio in over 10 years. Before that, I was involved in several with 7 digit construction budgets. That may not withstand scrutiny compared to yourself, so perhaps I'll just bow out.

    But hey, after 5 days of languishing, nice of you to come around to offer advice.

    P5

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    Hey mate I was not criticising you - I was asking how you formed your opinion. There's a difference. I would have thought that it was a pretty reasonable question to ask, considering you mentioned that you didn't know that the clips were. We're all trying to get good results here and my intention is no different.

    *EDIT: I should say explicitly, I definitely appreciate your perspective in certification driving costs and premium pricing. That is a very plausible reason, and I think describes the bureaucracy involved.
    Last edited by tombarton; 12 Hours Ago at 17:27.

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    D'oh!!

    I read much more into that than I should have.

    With a mouthful of crow pie, let me explain what little i know.

    The clips in question are from a family of closely related suspension hardware. Some run on rails, which, upon a second look these do. Some hang from wires. Some clamp to dimension lumber (as I thought these did). Some fit IEC rail (these might). Some are tabbed for nail/screw/bolt attachment. Still others fit specific hardware applications.

    The steel bit is obviously the structural part. The idea is to get that as thin as possible, thus creating the smallest cross section for conducting sound. But then, as it gets thinner, it gets weaker, right? So there's obviously a limit. Indeed, that might have been the big difference between the brands and prices. Or not. Nothing to go on, really.

    The isolator is pretty ordinary stuff at this level. That is, at a project studio level. There's some really good advice hereabouts on room sizing and proportioning. Once you meet those requirements -- along with oblique walls and ceilings -- then isolator characteristics might matter and ultimately need specific callouts. As is, just call it squishy stuff.

    For walls and ceilings, total up your weight. Multiply a Margin of Safety. Divide by rated capacity of the hanger/mount. That's your initial structural need. Depending on load paths, you can subtract a few here and there. The squishy stuff should have ratings for both failure (pullout, shear, compression, etc.) and freq response/transmission/rebound.

    But then, a guy might have to pay for that kinda documentation, where a bargain vendor might just jam whatever rubber insert he could find. Still would have a desirable effect, far better than nothing, just more difficult to predict. Alan had a good idea, too. If it really is a concern, working with a supplier might be best. Don't know about the prices, but the product could have far more known about it and they could tell you what theirs consisted of. But again, I can't see that level of detail on a venture of this type.

    Opinion-wise, I only really offered the bureaucracy thing because i have no idea what all AUZ has in store for the builder. The rest is science, except it's not because I got nothing to really go on (durometer, dimensions, testing, etc.). So i guess I was hazarding a guess there, too.

    Either way, this horse is beaten

    Ponder5

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