booth like this

We all do in the end FitZ.
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Well, after reading some of my crudgmudgen posts, at least you'll know what NOT to become.:rolleyes:btw, I'm trying to be a good member now.:D

I'm turning 40 in two months.
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Hey Frank, compared to me you're still a pup!:p Although I'd submit, compared to most of the newbies...you're already over the hill and I've got one foot in the grave! Hahahahahaha!
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Well, after reading some of my crudgmudgen posts, at least you'll know what NOT to become.:rolleyes:btw, I'm trying to be a good member now.:D
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And it is a sterling job you're doing!

I remain in awe of the level of detail to which you go . . it is clearly a topic for which you have a great affinity!
 
The thing is... and I'm a newbie here so I don't know anyone, OR their reps... the thing is this; You go to Sam Ash or Guitar Center or (insert music megamart here) and see all the sound treatment stuff they sell, and it's all stuff like Auralex acoustic foam. They're great for standing waves and flutter echos, two of the biggest problems home recordists face. So I don't understand the outright bashing of them in a forum about home recording. However, as was pointed out, bass traps are the other part - Auralex recommends you use their acoustic foam WITH bass traps if you want to tame the whole room.

Adding to the confusion is that fact that some companies sell fiberglass panels that sorta LOOK like the typical foam stuff. :)

My own experience has taught me that if I sing in a little teeny "foam room," it's going to be all lows and mids and I'm going to have to do hardcore eq to fix it. It's better when there's some "air." I like to try to get air as well as kill the standing waves, etc.

Just tossing in my 3 cents.
 
Richard, I almost always qualify any statement I make about foam in general with, "it has its uses". I don't think treatment of standing waves is typically one of them (at least not in any significant way), but flutter echo definitely is. I will say with absolute certainty than pretty much no one in Sam Ash or Guitar Center is likely to know squat about acoustics; they sell foam because there's a huge profit in it, not because they have any moral or ethical stake in the product. They'll gleefully tell you that it's the best thing since sliced bread for low end control even though the manufacturer's own test data will tell you otherwise.

Also, don't think that we haven't been approached by some of the big chain stores in terms of distribution. We have intentionally said "no" specifically so that we don't have to sit right along side foam products on somebody's web page. Not that foam doesn't have it's uses, just that there's really no comparison between the two products.

Frank
 
richardmac said:
They're great for standing waves and flutter echos, two of the biggest problems home recordists face. So I don't understand the outright bashing of them in a forum about home recording. However, as was pointed out, bass traps are the other part - Auralex recommends you use their acoustic foam WITH bass traps if you want to tame the whole room.
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The thing is this... Foam is a fine absorber for high frequencies. The thing is, high frequency absorption isn't what most home studio spaces need. So, we look for an alternative that satisfies the low-end absorption need, which leads us to rigid fiberglass or rockwool. Well, as it turns out, rigid fiberglass works just as good for the highs as foam AND has the added benefit of treating the lows (which is the real problem anyway), AND THEN, you add the fact that its actually cheaper to use the stuff that works better, and it turns out that foam is best suited for seat cushions, etc. :p

Thats how I understand, and thats why I dont recommend foam for anyone's studio on here. Hopefully that makes enough sense without bashing foam. The fact is, it just isn't the best solution. Couple that with the fact that the foam marketing people sell this stuff so hard, and you can see why people that know better get annoyed with the "foam costs more so must be better" mentality.
 
I like Jeff_D's post. That made sense to me. Again, I'm not an expert. I just don't like over the top bashing of stuff. I like posts more like Jeff's... a well thought out logical opinion.
 
richardmac said:
I like Jeff_D's post. That made sense to me. Again, I'm not an expert. I just don't like over the top bashing of stuff. I like posts more like Jeff's... a well thought out logical opinion.
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bashing or not, the fact is foam does not perform as well as rigid fiberglass and I'll be the first person to tell anyone not to bother with it for their studio. Its really alot less about my opinion, and a lot more to do with actual fact and empirical data. :)
 
ok

so I've got a space to do my vocals it's a large as storage closet but the problem is the echo I'm trying to decide what to put on the walls to help this I have a good condenser mic and an se reflection filter which works amazing i've been doing tons of research and talking to lots of people the space is ready and i don't have tons of money to isolate it i was thinking to use eggshell foam cause yes like i said no money will it help isolate the sound even more frank you look like you know a lot maybe someone here can help because maybe im just over thinking all of this THANKS!
 
DMysticMC said:
so I've got a space to do my vocals it's a large as storage closet but the problem is the echo I'm trying to decide what to put on the walls to help this I have a good condenser mic and an se reflection filter which works amazing i've been doing tons of research and talking to lots of people the space is ready and i don't have tons of money to isolate it i was thinking to use eggshell foam cause yes like i said no money will it help isolate the sound even more frank you look like you know a lot maybe someone here can help because maybe im just over thinking all of this THANKS!
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Punctuation is your friend. :D

Eggshell foam is the wrong stuff. It's closed-cell, which makes it unusable for acoustic purposes. The stuff by the big manufacturers is open-cell and higher density, which changes the response completely. Again, foam will do a good job of taming high frequency stuff, and some of that will be necessary even in a small space like that. What's likely to happen though is that you'll wind up with a space that's pretty boomy because the foam will do nothing to control the lower frequency issues. I almost always suggest panels at least 2" thick (which should cover well down to about 250Hz or so), and 4" thick panels are even better. I know space is at a premium, but that's probably what will be necessary.

Frank
 
Weasel9992 said:
Punctuation is your friend. :D

Eggshell foam is the wrong stuff. It's closed-cell, which makes it unusable for acoustic purposes. The stuff by the big manufacturers is open-cell and higher density, which changes the response completely. Again, foam will do a good job of taming high frequency stuff, and some of that will be necessary even in a small space like that. What's likely to happen though is that you'll wind up with a space that's pretty boomy because the foam will do nothing to control the lower frequency issues. I almost always suggest panels at least 2" thick (which should cover well down to about 250Hz or so), and 4" thick panels are even better. I know space is at a premium, but that's probably what will be necessary.

Frank
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DMysticMC appeared to be talking about isolation. Neither foam or rigid fiberglass will do anything for isolation.

Also, not all egg crate foam is closed-cell.
 
ya thanks!

ok guys thanks for the help i got some good 2" foam and used it this was more to just treat the sound i guess i used the wrong words when i said isolate.so i used what you suggested frank and got some bad boy bass traps in there too with all this and the reflection filter it sounds way better and i'm happy with the drier recordings i'm getting with vocals as well as my instruments its great with the software i usually just add a few effects and mix things down to my liking and its just awesome thanks for the help:)
 
DMysticMC said:
ok guys thanks for the help i got some good 2" foam and used it this was more to just treat the sound i guess i used the wrong words when i said isolate.so i used what you suggested frank and got some bad boy bass traps in there too with all this and the reflection filter it sounds way better and i'm happy with the drier recordings i'm getting with vocals as well as my instruments its great with the software i usually just add a few effects and mix things down to my liking and its just awesome thanks for the help:)
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Awesome. :D

Frank
 
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