Basement Studio Help Appreciated

M

msatchmo

New member
Hi gang,

Need some expert help and yes I've done some research and searches but really need some help putting this all together.

My basement is currently framed with 2x4 wooden studs with plans to add some doors and drywall with the current layout.

satchmostudio.jpg


Unfortunately my basement is pretty small (2 story colonial) but I'm doing the best I can.

My room is somewhat uneven dimensions, but from what i've read this is a 'GOOD' thing, as I don't want a perfectly square or rectangular room, correct?

Room dimensions are about 19'2" x 12'4" x 8'3" with some differences in width and length throughout due to the sump pump enclosure closet i'm building and where the circuit breaker was that wall had to be about 5" farther out.

Ceiling is 8'3" to the floorboards, and about 7'8 to the joists. I plan to put in a dropped ceiling with some recessed lighting. I know the ceiling is sort of low, but I guess it could be worse. I'm 6'3" and have been in basements that were lower.


Purpose of room: Movies/Recording/Practicing/Chilling

Recording acoustic guitar and male vocals. Mostly just me and myself doing some overdubbing. I may also start an all guy acapella group and record in this area as well.The room will also be set up as a movie room with a big screen LCD or Plasma. So there will be probably be 2 sofas in the room for seating.

My intention/What I'm trying to do: Proper sound treatment

Since the walls are not covered by drywall yet I would like to put in some material to help keep sounds from bouncing all over the place since right behind the 2x4's is the concrete foundation. I want the room to be good for recording and movies, but I don't want it to be so dead that it sounds like i'm recording in a shoebox.

Questions/Concerns:

#1: I've read good things about Roxul AFB. Since it is resistant to moisture, fire retardant, and has good sound blocking. I've seen some pictures of folks building studios and they literally fill every wall with the stuff behind the drywall (p.s. i'm using 1/2" standard drywall). Will this work? or if i put it in every slot between the 2x4"s will I make the room "TOO Dead". I.e. kill all the highs and be left with booming bass or is filling all the spaces proper and adequate? https://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3079/satchmostudio.jpg

#2 When putting in the insulation should i be concerned about an airgap between the insulation and the concrete wall? I've heard some people put plastic up on the basement walls, i've heard some people leave a slight airgap (i.e. the insulation is flush with the drywall but doesn't actually 'touch' the cement basement foundation wall). If leaving a gap is a good idea, should i 'frame' or 'wrap' the insulation in burlap or cloth to prevent it from ever slouching or touching the wall?

#3 I'm concerned about air quality and inhaling fiberglass/rockwool over the next 20 years of recording/movie watching/practicing. If i simply put it behind the drywall am i good to go or should i really wrap the stuff to be extra safe?

#4 What about OC 703? I know that stuff is awesome for bass traps, but what about putting it in the wall behind drywall?

#5 Anyone have experience with basement sump pumps? I'd like to make that little closet literally 99.9999% soundproof. I can already predict my rage when in the middle of a perfect recording the thing trips on and i hear the buzz come through the mics!

#6 Is there any problem with the long hallway leading to the stairs being open?

#7 Any recommendation on dropped ceiling panels? I've been looking at home depot at these http://www.armstrong.com/resclgam/na/ceilings/en/us/prod_detail.asp?itemId=44724.0&cid=tilessrc6 they say they block sound which is good, but they reflect light which could be good or bad for movies.

Thank you all so much in advance. These forums are truly awesome and without you all many of us new guys would be utterly lost.

p.s. budget is flexible. I don't want to spend a fortune and this doesn't have to be 100% pro, but I'm willing to pay a few extra bucks for something nice. I'm still single and this is my new house I just bought, so I want to do it right.
 
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Hey man, couple of quick things. You don't mention what you are recording... Are you trying to get drums in this space too? If so, space may be tight. It sounds from your post like all the walls are framed but not drywalled yet. So, while you still have some time, you might want to consider your layout.

Also, regarding the rockwool... If your objective is to stop the transfer of sound from your studio to adjacent spaces, then put the rockwool inside the wall cavity (there are also equally or more affective ways to stop sound transfer too). If your objective is to use the rockwool to treat the acoustic properties within your studio for a more balanced and easier-to-mix-in room, then put the rockwool or OC703 on the outside of the drywall and wrap it in fabric.

Back to insulation inside the wall cavity (if that is indeed what you intend to do), I would agree that it is a good idea to hold the insulation an inch or so off of the face of your basement walls. This is more of a moisture issue than anything.

As far as fiberglass fibers in the air, it is common practice to wrap OC703 or rockwool in burlap or muslin or duck cloth and hang it on the wall. I wouldn't recommend beating on it, but if you leave it alone, I really don't see an issue. Some in the past have wrapped the OC703 in thin plastic first. This is ok, but will reduce the affectiveness of the absorber in higher frequencies.




The BEST advice I can give you is to slow down right now and get a good grasp of the concepts of home studio design before you spend a shitload of money on construction.

Ask yourself, what do I intend to put in the space, what are my goals for interior acoustics, what are my goals for isolation from the rest of the house.

For instance, my space is set up for my loud punk band. My wife and the kids like our music and the neighbors are spaced pretty good, so stopping loud drums and guitars was never much of an issue. BUT, I recorded my friends folk band- three piece all acoustic instruments and every time one of the kids went trotting across the floor above us it ruined a take.

Setting your goals and planning accordingly will save you time and money in the long run. I don't think anyone has "winged it" and got it right the first time. :D:p
 
Good advice Jeff. Slow down and learn first.

If you need insulation on the walls for climate control, you should use regular insulation like in a normal room. This would be between the drywall and the concrete. My old basement had PVC wrapped insulation, I guess for moisture resistance.

There are two modes of sound treatment. Sound isolation and acoustic treatment. Sound isolation keeps unwanted sound leaving from leaving or entering your space; like your sump pump. Acoustic treatment makes the room respond the way you want, so your recording and mixes sound correct.

Looking at your layout, you probably aren't concerned with noise from neighboring rooms too much, except for the floor above. If you need to isolate noise from the above, you should reconsider the drop ceiling. Drywall is best bang for the buck for dampening sound.

Check out Ethan Winer's write-up on DIY room acoustics.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

My suggestion for the sump pump is two or three layers of drywall and lots of pink fluffy on the inside. Be sure you take the drywall all the way to the concrete and seal it with caulk so you don't have any flanking routes of escape. Same for the ceiling over the pump. Make sure the sump room is completely sealed, but allow enough room to keep the pump cool.

good luck,
 
oh yeah, forgot about that sump pump...

I think you can get a timer switch that will turn a device *off* for the timed period. (normally, the timer switch turns something on for a timed period).

How often does that thing really run? In some houses they run almost constantly because of ground water etc, and in other houses they run once a year only during the heaviest of rains. Have you been there long enough to know how often it kicks on and whether you can do without it for a couple hours at a time? I think the door you put on it will be the weak link in trying to soundproof that thing...
 
Hey guys thanks for the quick replies.

The room layout I have is about as good as it's going to get. Space vs function and all that. I'm not looking to make this a perfect studio, just something a notch above a typical finished basement that wouldn't be very good for recording.

I'll be doing mostly male vocals and acoustic guitars. No drums. If I do drums they will be all VSTs through a MPC or a rockband drum kit (yes I have ghetto rigged it to my computer and it works perfectly!)

What i'm really trying to accomplish is a nice hang out room to watch movies and do some recording that is better than my old method which was a spare bedroom used as an office/recording area. It had no treating, the only thing I did was open the closet doors full of clothes to absorb some of the sound while recording, but that was it. I came up with some recordings which to my ears sounded pretty good for a spare bedroom.

I'd like to take it a notch up from this, but I'm not willing to sacrafice the already limited room space to make it perfect acoustically. I.e. angleing walls, building in wood diffusers, etc etc. I'd love to do that, but the cost and the space it would take up would mean no movie watching in the basement.

So I am trying to kind of make a functional room into a better recording area.

I appreciate the info on the insulation. It sounds like I really don't have to put a bunch of rockwool behind the drywall unless i'm trying to keep the sound from getting out. Since the walls are backed by the poured concrete foundation this really isn't a problem. Plus the room is plenty warm already, so it's really not a climate control thing.

I was thinking rockwool behind the drywall would kinda act as a basstrap without having to have extra traps hanging all over the outter sides of the wall. I realize the drywall itself will probably reflect a lot of the higher frequencies all over the room, so some trapping will be needed on the outside. I was hoping to get away with making some homemade OC 703s for the major reflection points of the speakers, in the back of the room, and in all 4 major corners.

My biggest thing to figure out immediately was whether or not to put rockwool or 703 inside the 2x4 framing before the drywall goes up.

I'm not installing the framing/drywall. I have a family friend who does construction doing it with his guys and he's giving me a really good deal. About $3500 for the labor and materials to put up all the walls, drywall, smooth, sand, do all the electrical outlets/lights/cables/ethernet, and install all the doors. (we haven't decided on ceiling or flooring yet).

So this isn't really costing me a fortune or anything yet, but i'd be willing to toss in another $1000 to insulate the walls if it meant the room frequencies would have a flatter response. I was just afraid of overtreating it and having it sound dead.

The sump pump goes off rather frequently. As in every 10 minutes! Michigan = water, so there isn't much I can do about it, other than wall this puppy in and make it as silent as possible. I am getting a natural gas generator hooked to the home's electrical system so that if power ever goes out it will auto turn on. I also have a backup pump in there as well so I should be good in terms of threat of flooding.
 
Due to the frequency of the sump pump I will probably go with a simple timer that i'll use during recording. It takes it about 3-4 hours before i'd have to worry about the pit filling up too high with water and possibly overflowing, so i could definitely have the pump off for a 2 hour recording window. The timer will make sure i dont forget to turn it back on :)
 
msatchmo said:
Due to the frequency of the sump pump I will probably go with a simple timer that i'll use during recording. It takes it about 3-4 hours before i'd have to worry about the pit filling up too high with water and possibly overflowing, so i could definitely have the pump off for a 2 hour recording window. The timer will make sure i dont forget to turn it back on :)
Click to expand...

Exactly. :p:D
 
I think you've got a good size room to cover the two main functions; recording and movies. I think you should still consider 703 or equivalent on the walls in strategic positions. This will improve your movie watching experience as well as your recording quality.

I don't think you need insulation in the walls for sound control. I still think 2 layers of drywall for the sump pump room will work well. You might find a two hour window won't be long enough once you get into a recording session. Right when you're about to do a final vocal take, then pump turns on.

My guess is you should treat the main room with mixing in mind rather than recording. Because you've got a nice size room, recording out in the open will give decent results. I've got a small 10' x 11' room and get okay results. For recording vocals and acoustic guitars, the bigger the room, the better.

Good luck,
 
Alright guys thanks for the info!

I was really stressing about whether or not to add acoustic insulation in the walls as I need to figure that out soon (they want to put the drywall up next week). I'm busy studying for MBA exams and can't get my studio out of my head ;) So the help really is appreciated.

So quick re-cap:

1. I shouldn't worry about insulating the walls behind the drywall. This avoids working about vapor barriers/etc. My basement is so small and it's a brand new house that the new poured concrete actually isn't letting that much heat out anyways, even in the cold MI winters. The basement temp is actually quite comfortable imo and will only increase once I have a computer, tv, and several other heat conducting electronics and warm bodies in the room.

2. Once the walls are up I should invest in some OC 703 and make some DIY bass traps probably 4" to 6" thick. I'll position these in the corners of the room and run them from floor to ceiling. I will also probably put one on the back wall and 2 on the sides of the wall. I won't permanently attach anything until i play with it a bit and see how it all sounds.

3. For practical purposes i'm probably going with a drop ceiling. There is just too much vent controls/water shutoffs/gas shutoffs/etc in the ceiling to completely wall them in. I'll go with some decent tiles that are designed to reduce noise transmission. I realize these will suck compared to putting 4"+ of insulation and drywall up there, but it's still better than no ceiling at all and should make the room feel more finished. I also realize i may have to do some tweaking to make sure the ceiling panals don't vibrate or 'hum'.

4. Sump-pump, get some type of timer and double drywall the enclosure. Seal it to the ceiling. I will actually probably put in some sound insulation into that part of the ceiling. I also opted for a more expensive steel door with weather/rubber proofed seals to hopefully help with keeping the noise in the room. I may also build a custom box to go over the pit to further seal it in with rubber on the bottom... we'll see though. 1 step at a time.


One other tip from several hours of research... rather than go with movie posters put into glass frames that will reflect sounds all over the room, i would be better off going with canvas paintings. The paintings usually have room in the back to put a 1" or 2" piece of foam, so they would double as decorations and sound absorbing.


Anything i'm missing?

p.s. i think i'm going to carpet the floor eventually, but not right away.
 
I suggested it in another thread, but acid stained concrete can be very attractive, easy to do and cheaper than just about any other type of flooring. Check out a company called "Brickform". You'll have to find your local commercial concrete supply store to buy it.

As for the OC703 bass traps, it sounds like you got the gist of it, but you may end up putting in more than one on the back wall and 2 on the sidewalls to be effective... If you want something decorative, you can get really cool fabric or check out GIK - http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html for the "art panels".

I don't think you'll bother anyone outside of your room by just playing acoustic guitar and singing (as opposed to electric guitars and drums), but external noise coming in and leaking into your tracks could be a problem. Most problematic in a basement seems to be footsteps from above. If you live alone, this shouldn't be a problem. :)
 
Those custom GIK panels look amazing. Pretty pricey, but not bad when you consider what a piece of art would cost you. Would definitely give a cool look/feel to the room.

Thanks!
 
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