annoying kidkage potential studio build thread

kidkage

kidkage

Bored of Canada
For as long as I can remember my mom has wanted to convert our adjoined carport, and back patio into proper rooms. Since me and my dad are finally getting around to taking care of other build/fix projects when we're off work, and we're always eager to do something, it looks like we will finally be able to make that happen sometime in 2013. Yeah it's a while away, but I wanted to get some fore-site.
The original purpose was just to use them as dens or entertainment rooms or offices whatever. Eventually they began to toy around with the idea of letting me set up shop in one of the rooms :o. Now it means a lot that they take enough interest in my bedroom recording habit to let me do that (that or I'm stinking up the main part of the house :()... but now they've tossed up the idea of either taking out the half brick wall in the middle of the two spaces and making it one reallly big room. Or keeping the two connected and having me set up the "studio" in both. Obviously I'm thinking that would mean a live/control room set-up. So I'm not sure if I should go that route or not.
Which brings me to my question: Why are controls rooms generally frowned upon around here?

Now I understand, more info is needed. I'll be making a video of the spaces tomorrow.
 
A control room is only good if you are recording someone else. If you are recording yourself, you need to set up remote control of your recording gear.
 
How big are the two rooms...or how big would it be as a single room?

Unless they are each like 20' x 14' (ballpark)...you would be better off having one large room, though yeah, if you plan on recording a lot of other people, having a control room has it's advantages, though IMHO, it's not a deal-breaker going with a studio/control single room setup...you only need to adjust your tracking SOP, that's it.

There are some ratios for best-case room dimensions, though not absolutes, and there's many many a less-than optimal room that yielded good recordings.

This is off of Ethan Winer's website (he's owner of Real Traps)...room ratios:

Height Width Length
1.00 x 1.14 x 1.39
1.00 x 1.28 x 1.54
1.00 x 1.60 x 2.33

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

Read the whole page, though there is quite a bit of info there to digest...and don't assume that as long as the ratios are good, then even real small rooms are OK. There is always more trouble with small rooms..."boxes".
 
20'x20'
14'x14'

Yeah. I certainly want to branch out to recording (and eventually even mixing for) others, but right now, I'm just self recording really.

Here are the two areas. Excuse the mess :o, crappy quality, and the sleepiness of my voice.
 
What is the length of the main area? I am thinking that splitting the space directly in half, would be a better approach. A square room is the least ideal. I envy your possibility to build a space to your own desire. :D
 
jimmys69 said:
What is the length of the main area? I am thinking that splitting the space directly in half, would be a better approach. A square room is the least ideal. I envy your possibility to build a space to your own desire. :D
Click to expand...

The bigger room (20') or the entire area if we take out the brick wall (34:confused:)?

Would leaving the bricks up (as they are) without a window or extra door to the side like i mention in the video be a problem (or maybe even beneficial) in any way? I guess the room would still be really big that way but it would just have a little brick area separating :confused:
 
Think I'm going to pickup some books like the one recommended in the article miroslav posted and read.
It's interesting to know that it's basically a blank slate to work on, and I'll be able to build accordingly.

Time to start doing more research and annoy you guys with more questions.
Including but not limited to- Ceiling (slanted? drywall?), flooring(concrete is best right?), and walls types :rolleyes:
 
don't tear down the brick - it's a good structure - forget the control room, it's useless for home recording, you don't need to separate yourself from the band, since you are the band.

And Jimmy is totally right, square is bad for standing waves. Use that big 20 x 20 space and throw a wall up in there so it's not a square room - make it like 20 x 16 or something.

$.02 :)
 
:( I'm not sure that throwing up a wall in the middle is an option in with them... yet.
But since I've ditched the control room idea, and have settled on making it one really big room (albeit with a cool brick wall in the middle), and we have decided to make a "cut-out" from the original 20x20 square idea for the back door, would that mean it isn't a square anymore?
It would be (est.) 36' long and different widths at different points.
I've made a terrible attempt at making a floor plan. What do you guys think? Will it need to be christened "shit sound central"?
A TERRIBLE ''DRAWING''.jpg
 
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Hi,
Looks like a great project. :)

You're opening a massive can of worms there though, so be prepared for a lot of reading.

I have an attic rom with my gear in that I'd like to 'improve' a bit so I've been checking out some audio and studio design sites. Audio geeks speak the sort of language that makes computer geeks look almost straightfoward....:eek:

I'm currently trying to get a handle on how to test a room both before, during and after treating, and it feels a bit like trying to learn Russian from somebody speaking in Chinese.... :facepalm:

Heres' a quick sample from a very knowledgeable guy who is generously trying to help lighten my darkness..

Is it the speakers? Flutter echo? A reflection? Comb filtering? A mode? Reverberation? Some other form of resonance? What is the amplitude of the problem? What is the Q of the problem?
Click to expand...

and

So the room must have flat frequency response, and flat RT-60 response, and evenly spread modal response. The RT-60 must be LESS than that of the associated live room, or you'd never hear reverb tails from the natural sound of the live room itself. It must be symmetrical and perfectly balanced, in order to have an accurate sound stage, clear stereo image, and perfect phantom center. There must be no first order reflections getting back to the mix position within 15 ms of the direct signal, and 15 dB down from it. Etc.
Click to expand...

Apart from "room" I got a bit lost in spots there... I think my brains actually may have started leaking out my ears... :D

The problem is trying to get really accurate information about how the sound waves are bouncing around in the room. Some get absorbed, some reflected, etc. and the various frequencies behave differently. Bass, for instance, punches straight through walls much more readily than higher tones, and so on. To complicate things, we'll get additional effects from the speakers themselves, the mics, and everything in the audio chain plus everything in the room... So seeking true 'uncoloured' and 'flat' sound, and nailing down which bit is doing what, can seem a bit like chasing rainbows.

I suspect that for most of us home hobby types it really isn't essential to get all that stuff right though - we're not aiming to built professional studios. But it would be nice to be able to understand at least some of it so that we don't make too many glaring mistakes. I think that your idea of spending the time before you build working on plans and getting info is a great way to go.

Cheers,

Chris
 
Thanks for the words Chris.

Yeah, I mean, my general aim for the room is to set up a killer mixing space. Though obviously I will need to record in there. But I feel recording in a mixing environment would be better than mixing in a recording environment.

AND my general aim for this thread was to find some good reading resources to learn in this year.
Because as you said, recording terms are crazy... "modes?" wtf? :p
 
That layout should be OK, you will just have to add some broadband traps - no big deal - make some mobos, super easy with 1x6's

I would probably frame in that brick wall (extend it to the ceiling and drywall it) and put a door in. Insulate with Roxul, just in case you decide to make it a control room later, or just want it quieter in there...
 
Based on your drawing and not knowing exact dimensions:
I'd use the top section as your control room with monitors facing right from left with a window into larger area
The opening in the brick wall into the larger area could then serve as a doorway into your big live room.
The bump out area on the right where it is 20 ft wide could provide the basis for a vocal booth or a drum room.
Drum room would have to be built out into the live room somewhat but in doing so might help with the parallel walls situation.
That doorway at the bottom righ would be great for an entryway into your new studio!
That's my global 2 cent strategic viewpoint. :D
 
Cool cool.
Sorry I didn't see the replies.

Yeah, we've decided to keep the brick standing so now it seems that the main point that we're all caught up on right now is whether or not we divide the rooms by either making the more standard control room with window and all that good stuff or drywall and roxul it to the ceiling, or just leave the brick as it is halfway up just hanging out there giving a different vibe to the room.

A major concern is what's been pointed out- not wanting to separate myself from the band, since I am the band. I just don't know what sort of potential problems leaving the brick standing as it is would be. And whether or not that route would be more challenging as far as room treatment is concerned.
 
kidkage said:
Cool cool. Sorry I didn't see the replies.

Yeah, we've decided to keep the brick standing so now it seems that the main point that we're all caught up on right now is whether or not we divide the rooms by either making the more standard control room with window and all that good stuff or drywall and roxul it to the ceiling, or just leave the brick as it is halfway up just hanging out there giving a different vibe to the room.
A major concern is what's been pointed out- not wanting to separate myself from the band, since I am the band.
I just don't know what sort of potential problems leaving the brick standing as it is would be.
And whether or not that route would be more challenging as far as room treatment is concerned.
Click to expand...
As far as the brick and sound is concerned, I don't believe brick will allow for the transfer of sound waves from one room to another.
However, brick can be an issue as it can reflect bass frequencies.
In regards to you being the entire band, there is nothing wrong with recording yourself in the control room, dependent on the instruments and sound you want to attain, primarily as your control room shouldn't be very "live".
I suggest you go here: Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms and read, read, read.
I have learned a lot from Ethan Winer and even though I have a small (11X13) one room home studio, his suggestions have made the acoustics in my room pretty damn nice.
We recently had our basement redone so the interior wall structures of my studio are now 9 1/2 inches thick with insulation and dead air space, my ceiling and interior walls are double dry-walled and I have compressed fiberglass insulation in the ceiling as well. I have also used solid wood core doors to reduce sound transference and on top of that I have quite a few compressed fiberglass sound absorbent panels. Photos below. Now I gotta go! BG
StudioDoubleWalls.jpg StudioSolidDoor1.jpg StudioLeft3-31-2010croppedRed.jpg
 
kidkage said:
:( I'm not sure that throwing up a wall in the middle is an option in with them... yet.
But since I've ditched the control room idea, and have settled on making it one really big room (albeit with a cool brick wall in the middle), and we have decided to make a "cut-out" from the original 20x20 square idea for the back door, would that mean it isn't a square anymore?
It would be (est.) 36' long and different widths at different points.
I've made a terrible attempt at making a floor plan. What do you guys think? Will it need to be christened "shit sound central"?
Click to expand...

I think you'll do fine if you get the room treated properly. That brick wall might even work in your favour if you want to make some sort of isolated vocal booth-type area. You'd need some type of board or something that you could put up or take down depending on the situation.
 
About 576 square feet is nice. You should be able to create a nice recording space there.

Do consider your isolation requirements as this alone can determine the success or failure of a project like this. I have just replied to your email.

Also consider having a finished ceiling height of 14 feet in the tracking area and 11 feet in the control room.
Cheers,
John
 
Wait a minute, what if you wanna have chicks over? Or if recording session with a all girl band gets crazy? Cover all your bases dude, I' ve seen some weird stuff happen in studios that I wouldnt want my mom and dad to see!
 
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