Designing a one room studio with crates

J

Jason April

New member
  • Location: 1,600 sq. ft. loft apartment with cement floor, 14' ceiling, and soundproof walls. It's one big room.
  • Reasons: The apartment is an echo chamber. General sound blocking to reduce environmental noise. And I prefer to record late at night, sometimes when my girlfriend is sleeping, so I don't want to wake her.
  • Size: Interior dimensions are approximately 6' wide, 12' deep, and 7' tall. The exterior is about 8' x 16' x 7' 5".
  • Contents: Just a 6' x 2.5' desk with a quiet computer (thanks to help from the folks at silentpcreview.com), a chair, monitors, an audio interface, headphones, a couple of mikes with stands, and that's about it. Pretty minimal. I'm a one-man band, so it'll mostly be just me and an acoustic guitar in there.
  • Budget: Under $2,000 would be nice. I already have the crates.
Here's my initial design idea. The big wall is the existing soundproof wall in the apartment. Obviously there's no door, ventilation, or acoustic treatment yet. I'll put more work into this when I'm more confident it will actually work.

0ooUc0l.png


Minus the drywall. The ceiling will be constructed in two 8' pieces. Note the double stud along the back for extra support. The 16' wall is facing the living room, so it doubles as the living room wall.

2tmXBp3.png


I'm building it out of crates because I have a lot of crates (1/2" pine, approx. 24" x 21" x 24"), and the wall construction is simple: mostly just stacking. I'll probably stuff the crates with fiberglass insulation. Also, in keeping with a modular, easy-to-disassemble design, I'll be using screws instead of nails.

X-ray view.
7sfKJWI.png


Seem structurally and acoustically sound so far? I've never built anything unless you count computers or lego spaceships.
 
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I wonder... To minimize resonance in the crates, I could make them into diffusers instead of insulated walls covered in drywall. Then I could double the 5/8" drywall on the exterior using green glue. Thoughts?
 
I think no one has a clue how that will work out. Buy a behringer ecm8000 and take measurements.

Personally, I'm concerned about load-bearing on the crates from adding a 16x8 frame for a ceiling and then all the drywall. You do know drywall is heavy, right?
 
Chili said:
I think no one has a clue how that will work out.
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Yeah, it's an unusual approach.

Buy a behringer ecm8000 and take measurements.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this suggestion.

Personally, I'm concerned about load-bearing on the crates from adding a 16x8 frame for a ceiling and then all the drywall.
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So am I.

You do know drywall is heavy, right?
Click to expand...
280 lbs for 4 sheets of 4' x 8' at 5/8". The ceiling will be supported by 2' of surface area on three sides, which will spread out the weight along the tops of 12 crates (about 23 lbs per crate assuming equal distribution). The floating side will have a double stud for added support, and the two 8'x8' frames will be held together by steel brackets. However, since I'm not taking the chance of the structure falling on me, I'll consult a contractor first.
 
Rethinking this again... I think it would be better to build a control room with a separate iso booth. The booth is the only thing that really needs to be soundproof, and if it's smaller, then it will be cheaper and easier to build. Dealing with the acoustics of the control room will be another project.

The iso booth only needs to fit me and an acoustic guitar, so it can be fairly small. How much should I expect to spend to build a small (say, 4' x 6' interior) room with an STC rating of 50?
 
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I'm not sure how this would work.

I wonder about a different approach: sticking all those crates in the corners and around the bigger soace. Maybe you can work with them to dampen the bigger room.
 
I'd be real concerned wiht the structural integrity of the whole thing. Recording in a 4'x6' room - better have the walls all lined with OC703, and its going to get stuffy when you close up the door (how are you going to make soundproof doors?) Usually recording/mixing in small rooms brings small room results (not good).
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I've scrapped the crate idea and am going for two rooms: A control room and an ISO booth. Maybe I can use the crates to tame the acoustics in the control room or to reinforce the booth as advised, but as the main structure? No. I've posted this to several forums and there are a lot of concerns about structural integrity. I'm not taking that chance. I want a recording space, but not one that will kill me. :P

Since this has been such a headache, I've considered just buying a ready-made portable booth like the 4x6 standard version sold here: Sound Isolation Enclosures - Sound Isolation Booths - Iso Booths - Vocal Booths

Maybe my confidence levels are just low because I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, and I'm afraid of spending lots of time designing and building something that I won't be happy with. Or maybe I need to work on music, not a construction project.
 
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I have heard that those WhisperRooms are very good - of course an unventilated 4x6 is going to cost you close to $4000 - twice your budget.
 
Back to your reasons for wanting a separate room in the first place - echoing apartment and sleeping girlfriend.

For the echoes and reverb, you can make gobos to help tame the reflections while recording. But I can imagine your loft apartment might sound pretty nice as a 'Live' room. You can hang lots of OC703 on the walls to tame the room. As a DIY'er, you can make them look like the belong in the room by being creative with fabric, paintings, etc. Check out Ethan Winer's page. In his media room, you almost can't see the panels.

My wife and I have talked about hanging OC703 in our living room because it has a huge cathedral ceiling. She has lots of paintings on the walls (she's an artist) and we talked about ways of using the paintings to cover the panels. Havent done it yet, but it's on the list.

As for the girlfriend sleeping, I hear ya. I do most of my recording and mixing at night, too. Most of here do!! In your apartment, that can be a problem and that's one of the things that really sucks about apartments. Any chance you can move to a house!!??!! LOL. If not, work out a schedule to record and mix when she's not around or not sleeping.

Sound isolation is very expensive and is only as good as the weakest link. In an apartment, it's almost impossible to achieve.
 
Even in a house, the spousal noise issue happens. Send her out with friends as often as necessary! I'll plan my "mic sessions" accordingly, recording click and scratch tracks, DI tracks before hand, then ripping through all the mic tracks I need. Every once in a while, I'll send my wife upstairs to her hobby room, with instructions to close the door and not walk around until I give the signal (and I'll usually wait 5-10 minutes before starting, just in case. It works, but I try to keep these sessions to under 45 minutes.
 
Yeah, I'm spending a whole lot more than I'd originally hoped. But I just want to record music, so if that's what it takes...

Chili: It's not just the room echo, it's the environmental noise. Guinea pig drinking from his water bottle. Neighbor flushing the toilet. Screaming kids across the street. And my girlfriend works at home (she's also an artist). She often uses a printer that emits 43dB. Hell, just the sound of her walking or the cat scampering echoes throughout this place. We're talking a good 2 seconds of reverb. Maybe it would be a great live room in the absence of other humans and animals, but since they're here, I need isolation.

Any chance you can move to a house!!??!!
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Oh man. That almost happened. Almost. I was really looking forward to building a basement studio. Some day...

As for scheduling, I've tried. I can't help that I'm my most musically productive after midnight. ;)
 
Well, I've got some partial solutions for ya...

Flush the guinea pig down the neighbors toilet. It'll back up the toilet rendering it useless and both the guinea pig and toilet won't make anymore noise. Tell the neighborhood kids that you did that and they'll stay away from you. Tell your girlfriend, too and she'll move out. Then all you have to do is build some portable gobos and you're good to go.

:D
 
Chili said:
Well, I've got some partial solutions for ya...

Flush the guinea pig down the neighbors toilet. It'll back up the toilet rendering it useless and both the guinea pig and toilet won't make anymore noise. Tell the neighborhood kids that you did that and they'll stay away from you. Tell your girlfriend, too and she'll move out. Then all you have to do is build some portable gobos and you're good to go.

:D
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I like it. And the resulting crippling loneliness will provide excellent material for his next album.
 
I saw that you mentioned adding a door. Let's go through the physics of sound first. You mentioned your girlfriend sleeping. Bass frequencies are the hardest to dampen. In a totally soundproof room, a hole 1/8" around will allow them to escape totally. The crates might be available and therefore preferable but they take up a lot of room. You didn't mention what they are made of and whether they can support the ceiling. The doors on most studios are double doors with sound absorbing materials built in so that they pretty much close of the room acoustically. But it looks like you will have a sheet of 3/4" composition board for the floor laying directing on the concrete floor of the apartment. I had a recording studio in a loft in New York City and the floors were concrete. I could hear the machines operating below right through the floor. It took a lot of work to dampen them and I paid the contractor to mount the machines on sound deadening rubber grommets so they didn't shake the floor. Anything contacting the floor will transmit sound down through it. Even the speakers will transmit sound through the table legs to the apartment below. You would still have to monitor at low levels if you work late at night. My point is that all this work might not reduce the sound of your guitar very much unless you really amp up your construction and the fiberglass insulation could be literally deadly if you don't secure it in a way that prevents you coming in contact with it or breathing it in. I would suggest using an electric guitar and headphones but I think that's not what you want. i now work with headphones exclusively, checking my mixes during the day when I can use the speakers. You might try the Behringer spl mic in the room before construction to get a reference and then afterwards to see what it did. I also suggest you look online for studio construction tips. Here's one link. Build your own soundproof studio in 11 easy steps
Good luck,
Rod Norman
Jason April said:
  • Location: 1,600 sq. ft. loft apartment with cement floor, 14' ceiling, and soundproof walls. It's one big room.
  • Reasons: The apartment is an echo chamber. General sound blocking to reduce environmental noise. And I prefer to record late at night, sometimes when my girlfriend is sleeping, so I don't want to wake her.
  • Size: Interior dimensions are approximately 6' wide, 12' deep, and 7' tall. The exterior is about 8' x 16' x 7' 5".
  • Contents: Just a 6' x 2.5' desk with a quiet computer (thanks to help from the folks at silentpcreview.com), a chair, monitors, an audio interface, headphones, a couple of mikes with stands, and that's about it. Pretty minimal. I'm a one-man band, so it'll mostly be just me and an acoustic guitar in there.
  • Budget: Under $2,000 would be nice. I already have the crates.
Here's my initial design idea. The big wall is the existing soundproof wall in the apartment. Obviously there's no door, ventilation, or acoustic treatment yet. I'll put more work into this when I'm more confident it will actually work.

0ooUc0l.png


Minus the drywall. The ceiling will be constructed in two 8' pieces. Note the double stud along the back for extra support. The 16' wall is facing the living room, so it doubles as the living room wall.

2tmXBp3.png


I'm building it out of crates because I have a lot of crates (1/2" pine, approx. 24" x 21" x 24"), and the wall construction is simple: mostly just stacking. I'll probably stuff the crates with fiberglass insulation. Also, in keeping with a modular, easy-to-disassemble design, I'll be using screws instead of nails.

X-ray view.
7sfKJWI.png


Seem structurally and acoustically sound so far? I've never built anything unless you count computers or lego spaceships.
Click to expand...
 
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