Please help! Chord suggestions needed for chromatic run in melody line

T

twangbuck

New member
Hi all, I'm working on an original rock tune in the key of G major, and there's a section just before the chorus that I'm struggling trying to figure out chords for. The melody has a little chromatic run, and I need suggestions for which chords to play behind it.
The section starts with an F major chord, and the melody starts on F, then goes to A (still over F major), then G#, then G, then back to F. The last F note is played over a D minor. I need chords behind the G# and the G. I'm really looking for two different chords there, to give a kind of descending feel. So the melody/chord structure is:
F (over F major), A (over F Major), G# (over ?), G (over ?) and F (over D minor).
I've attached two little mp3 versions of just that section of the tune. It's just two guitars and drums, one guitar for chords and one playing the melody line.
The first has me starting on F Major and ending on D minor, but leaving out the chords in between.
The second has my best guess, which is me going to E major behind the G# and then to E flat major behind the G, and then to D minor. But I'm not sure if that's working.
Please let me know whether you think those chords are working there, and if you don't think they are, what chords you think might fit better.
Thanks!
 

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Here are a couple of suggestions:

1. G#: Fº7
G: A7/E (A7 with E in the bass)

2. G# (Ab): Db
G: C

3. G# (Ab): Bb7
G: A7/E
 
Twang, please don't pay much attention to the previous two replies.

And to mjbphotos and DM60, yes it is entirely possible to have a song in the key of G major and have F and Dm chords. In this case, those two chords would be considered borrowed chords, which means they're borrowed from the parallel key of G minor: F (bVII) and Dm (v).

One or two chords don't determine the overall key of the song. All we've heard is a tiny snippet of the song.

Among countless other artists, The Beatles used borrowed chords all the time. Here are just a few ridiculously popular examples off the top of my head:

"From Me to You" - It's in the key of C major, but the bridge begins on a Gm (v) chord.

"In My Life" - It's in the key of A major, but there's a Dm (iv) chord in the "my life" refrain. There's also a G chord (bVII) in the song too.

"I Am the Walrus" - LOL. This song probably has more borrowed chords than diatonic chords. In fact, it's even hard to determine one key. It begins in B major, but by the time the verse starts, it's kind of in A major ("I am, he is, you are me ..."). In that progression, you have A - A/G - C - D, and then (during the "sitting on a cornflake part"), it moves to A - A/G - A/F# - F - G.

"Eight Days a Week" - It's in D, but the verse progression is D - E - G - D. The E is a a non-resolving secondary dominant chord.

In fact, I'd bet that you'd be hard pressed to find a Beatles songs that contains only diatonic chords.

So please fellas, let's stop trying to tell people they're doing something wrong because of some key chart you found on the internet. Yes, the diatonic chords in the key of G are G (I), Am (ii), Bm (iii), C (IV), D (V), Em (vi), and F#º (viiº), but there are many songs "in the key of G" with both F and Dm chords --- not mention the fact that songs often modulate for a brief bit or just contain chords that are a little out there. It doesn't mean the song is not in the right key. In fact, the bVII chord (F in the key of G) is much, much more common than the diatonic viiº chord.

Bob Seger's "Night Moves," for example, is played in G on the guitar, although a capo on fret 1 raises the key to Ab. But anyway, on the guitar, the main chords of the verse are G, F, and C. Although those diatonic key charts will tell you that those chords belong to the key of C, you listen to "Night Moves" and tell me that's true.
 
famous beagle said:
Twang, please don't pay much attention to the previous two replies.

And to mjbphotos and DM60, yes it is entirely possible to have a song in the key of G major and have F and Dm chords. In this case, those two chords would be considered borrowed chords, which means they're borrowed from the parallel key of G minor: F (bVII) and Dm (v).

One or two chords don't determine the overall key of the song. All we've heard is a tiny snippet of the song.

Among countless other artists, The Beatles used borrowed chords all the time. Here are just a few ridiculously popular examples off the top of my head:

"From Me to You" - It's in the key of C major, but the bridge begins on a Gm (v) chord.

"In My Life" - It's in the key of A major, but there's a Dm (iv) chord in the "my life" refrain. There's also a G chord (bVII) in the song too.

"I Am the Walrus" - LOL. This song probably has more borrowed chords than diatonic chords. In fact, it's even hard to determine one key. It begins in B major, but by the time the verse starts, it's kind of in A major ("I am, he is, you are me ..."). In that progression, you have A - A/G - C - D, and then (during the "sitting on a cornflake part"), it moves to A - A/G - A/F# - F - G.

"Eight Days a Week" - It's in D, but the verse progression is D - E - G - D. The E is a a non-resolving secondary dominant chord.

In fact, I'd bet that you'd be hard pressed to find a Beatles songs that contains only diatonic chords.

So please fellas, let's stop trying to tell people they're doing something wrong because of some key chart you found on the internet. Yes, the diatonic chords in the key of G are G (I), Am (ii), Bm (iii), C (IV), D (V), Em (vi), and F#º (viiº), but there are many songs "in the key of G" with both F and Dm chords --- not mention the fact that songs often modulate for a brief bit or just contain chords that are a little out there. It doesn't mean the song is not in the right key. In fact, the bVII chord (F in the key of G) is much, much more common than the diatonic viiº chord.

Bob Seger's "Night Moves," for example, is played in G on the guitar, although a capo on fret 1 raises the key to Ab. But anyway, on the guitar, the main chords of the verse are G, F, and C. Although those diatonic key charts will tell you that those chords belong to the key of C, you listen to "Night Moves" and tell me that's true.
Click to expand...

OK, yes you're right. But you can't discount it totally either. When you are using a borrowed note/chord you still have to set it up to get it to sound correct and get back to the main chord pattern. I borrow all the time, but it is usually between two main chords in the key.

There are always exceptions and you are right in making that point.
 
DM60 said:
OK, yes you're right. But you can't discount it totally either. When you are using a borrowed note/chord you still have to set it up to get it to sound correct and get back to the main chord pattern. I borrow all the time, but it is usually between two main chords in the key.

There are always exceptions and you are right in making that point.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course it depends on the context. But that was my point: we'd only seen a few chords from his entire song, and y'all were telling him he was in the wrong key. :)
 
famous beagle said:
Yes, of course it depends on the context. But that was my point: we'd only seen a few chords from his entire song, and y'all were telling him he was in the wrong key. :)
Click to expand...

Now slow down, I stated it could be his problem, gave some reference material. Why would you tell someone to ignore that?
 
DM60 said:
Now slow down, I stated it could be his problem, gave some reference material. Why would you tell someone to ignore that?
Click to expand...

I realize you were only trying to help. I think my post came off harsher than I intended.

My main point is that those key charts are really only a very basic guide. And the truth is that the vast majority of music (pop, rock, jazz, country, blues, you name it) breaks those "rules" more often than not.

I suppose mjbphotos was actually the one who told him he was in the wrong key, and you just kind of seemed to have his back. And I didn't think that advice was particularly helpful; I actually think it's a bit harmful, to be honest.

Sometimes people (and I'm not implying you at all) tend to "listen with their eyes" instead of their ears. I saw all kinds of examples of this when I was at college studying music. They concentrate on the "rules" of music instead of listening to what's happening in the music that's all around them. Just as with the English language, which has "rules" that are broken all the time, much of music theory is really only a guide; it's an attempt to explain music and standardize a set of concepts that are observed in the music we listen to. Much of it, like the English language, is always changing and therefore is never set in stone.

Having said that, the music theory to explain F and Dm chords appearing in a song that's in G major has existed for a long, long time! :)
 
Without being able to listen to the snippets, I was just commenting regarding basic key theory. There's certainly nothing wrong with switchng keys for sections of songs, or using a 'borrowed' chord, but when you do that, you stop thinking about 'what chord in this key' should I use and what sounds correct instead. The OP said he started with F major, ended up on Dminor, with the melody notes mentioned he wasn't necessarily still in the key of G at that point. Again, without listening to the snippedt, a chord structure of F - F - Fm - Dmsus -Dm would fit, too.
 
mjbphotos said:
Without being able to listen to the snippets, I was just commenting regarding basic key theory. There's certainly nothing wrong with switchng keys for sections of songs, or using a 'borrowed' chord, but when you do that, you stop thinking about 'what chord in this key' should I use and what sounds correct instead. The OP said he started with F major, ended up on Dminor, with the melody notes mentioned he wasn't necessarily still in the key of G at that point. Again, without listening to the snippedt, a chord structure of F - F - Fm - Dmsus -Dm would fit, too.
Click to expand...

Hey that's a cool suggestion too. I tried going to Fm from the F major, but couldn't figure out where to go after that before landing on the Dm. Dmsus might work pretty cool. I'll try that tonight.

By the way, I appreciate everybody's feedback, and I certainly appreciate the theoretical concerns re: key, etc. Those are certainly foundational rules of thumb to keep in mind. As I was taught in my video production days, it's better to know the rules before you break them :cool:

Thanks!
 
mjbphotos said:
Without being able to listen to the snippets, I was just commenting regarding basic key theory. There's certainly nothing wrong with switchng keys for sections of songs, or using a 'borrowed' chord, but when you do that, you stop thinking about 'what chord in this key' should I use and what sounds correct instead. The OP said he started with F major, ended up on Dminor, with the melody notes mentioned he wasn't necessarily still in the key of G at that point. Again, without listening to the snippedt, a chord structure of F - F - Fm - Dmsus -Dm would fit, too.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. But, the OP didn't say "what chords in the key of G would sound good here?" He just said "I need some chord suggestions for these melody notes." He'd already identified it as a chromatic run, so obviously any chord that goes with the chromatic note is not going to be diatonic to G.

Anyway, I just didn't really understand the point in stating he wasn't in the key of G. I guess I assumed that, since he was asking for suggestions for chords, he was aware that the chords in G major weren't going to work for these notes. Just my take on it.

Peace.
 
I don't think about what chord is in the key at anytime.
I operate purely on what sounds right.
I do that through total ignorance of musical theorey and the exceptions to rules.
 
QUOTE=twangbuck;4200781]Hi all, I'm working on an original rock tune in the key of G major, and there's a section just before the chorus that I'm struggling trying to figure out chords for. The melody has a little chromatic run, and I need suggestions for which chords to play behind it.
The section starts with an F major chord, and the melody starts on F, then goes to A (still over F major), then G#, then G, then back to F. The last F note is played over a D minor. I need chords behind the G# and the G. I'm really looking for two different chords there, to give a kind of descending feel. So the melody/chord structure is:
F (over F major), A (over F Major), G# (over ?), G (over ?) and F (over D minor).
I've attached two little mp3 versions of just that section of the tune. It's just two guitars and drums, one guitar for chords and one playing the melody line.
The first has me starting on F Major and ending on D minor, but leaving out the chords in between.
The second has my best guess, which is me going to E major behind the G# and then to E flat major behind the G, and then to D minor. But I'm not sure if that's working.
Please let me know whether you think those chords are working there, and if you don't think they are, what chords you think might fit better.
Thanks![/QUOTE]


It's a rock song..... Play the G# maj over the G# and Gmaj over the G
 
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