What time signature is this one??

I think we need to add a "bicker about time signatures until Rami posts a recording of himself counting" sub-forum. :D
 
...It's amazing how people can complicate the issue until you realize that all you need to do is simply COUNT. Time signatures take a bout 4 seconds to figure out if you just....COUNT.

12 pages of discussion with people over-dissecting where accents and 16th notes fall. All of that is irrelevant. Just....COUNT. It really is that simple.
 
RAMI said:
I just realized how catchy that riff is. I can't get it out of my head. It reminds me of some Mahavishnu Orchestra stuff. Very haunting. I'd actually like to hear the rest of the tune now.
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Thanks RAMI! Any comparison to Mahavishnu Orchestra is a big compliment to me. I'll continue to work with it and will do a proper recording. I originally wrote that first piece in an alt tuning, but then figured out how to do it in standard which allowed me more flexibility with other parts.
 
Miroslav -
This is how it flowed out of me without any preconceived idea that I was going to compose something in 7. I actually think it would lose some special sauce to try and straighten it out into 4/4. If you hear it solo acoustic it has a nice flow. I think the various drumming issues may throw it off for some people.

It's actually a bit tricky to play...try it!

Brian
 
RAMI said:
OK, I was bored.

Here's me counting over this tune to what I think is 7/4.
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That's the way I count it too. It's just that you're counting them as quarter notes, and I'm counting them as 8th notes. So I'm hearing the hats as 16th notes.

I can tell you why I'm counting it that way: because of his count off (you're doubling the tempo of his count if you're counting those as quarter notes) and because of the placement of the snare, which first falls on beat 2.

Neither way is more right, per se, but like I said, IF you assume that he's counting quarter notes during the count-off, which is the case the vast majority of the time, then the hats are 16ths.
 
famous beagle said:
That's the way I count it too. It's just that you're counting them as quarter notes, and I'm counting them as 8th notes. So I'm hearing the hats as 16th notes.

I can tell you why I'm counting it that way: because of his count off (you're doubling the tempo of his count if you're counting those as quarter notes) and because of the placement of the snare, which first falls on beat 2.

Neither way is more right, per se, but like I said, IF you assume that he's counting quarter notes during the count-off, which is the case the vast majority of the time, then the hats are 16ths.
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You're absolutely right. Except that I'm not putting a lot of importance on his count. I'm not even sure what his count is all about because it almost has nothing to do with the actual song. :D For that reason, I "think" I'm counting quarter notes. But what you said about the snare falling on 2 for you (and 3 for me) makes total sense.
 
RAMI said:
You're absolutely right. Except that I'm not putting a lot of importance on his count. I'm not even sure what his count is all about because it almost has nothing to do with the actual song. :D For that reason, I "think" I'm counting quarter notes.
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Yeah, you're right; his count is terrible. But to me it's much closer to quarters than half notes, so that's what I went with. :)
 
And now acoustically

I thought I'd throw this one out again, with the main riff isolated acoustically.

Notice if you count the beat like RAMI did with 7 quarter notes, that second base note falls on a weak beat of the count. If you count quickly as 7 eighth notes, you catch that strong bass note on the 1.

Now try to count as I do
ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half
and it fits quite nicely.

I'm going to coin 3½ / 4 as my signature time signature.


Cheers
Brian
 

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Trovador98 said:
I thought I'd throw this one out again, with the main riff isolated acoustically.

Notice if you count the beat like RAMI did with 7 quarter notes, that second base note falls on a weak beat of the count. If you count quickly as 7 eighth notes, you catch that strong bass note on the 1.

Now try to count as I do
ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half ONE TWO THREE half
and it fits quite nicely.

I'm going to coin 3½ / 4 as my signature time signature.


Cheers
Brian
Click to expand...

Yes, it all depends on what you're considering the tempo. Are the hats playing 8th notes or 16th notes? If you're counting it that way (1 2 3 half 1 2 3 half), then, what are the "1 2 3"? Are those quarter notes or 8th notes?

If the "1 2 3" are quarter notes, then you're counting in 7/8, and the hats are playing 8th notes.

If the " 1 2 3" are 8th notes, then you're counting in 7/16, and the hats are 16th notes.

Then there are those people who count the "1 2 3" as 8th notes, but they don't start over after the "half" count. They keep counting to 7 before starting over, which puts the riff on the beat in the first half of the measure and then off the beat for the second half.

This type of counting will be either 7/4 if you're hearing the hats as 8ths, or it will be 7/8 if you're hearing the hats as 16ths.




So .... in summary, depending on your interpretation of the tempo (hats as 8ths or hats as 16ths) and your interpretation of the length of a measure (does a measure include 7 hats, 14 hats, or 28 hats), it could be counted as:
7/16
7/8
7/4

I'm inclined, again, to hear the hats as 16th notes and count it as 7/8. But 7/16 or 7/4 is no less "right."

Just like a song in 4/4 could be counted in 2/4 if you wanted or 8/4 (if you wanted).
 
Trovador98 said:
Miroslav -
This is how it flowed out of me without any preconceived idea that I was going to compose something in 7. I actually think it would lose some special sauce to try and straighten it out into 4/4. If you hear it solo acoustic it has a nice flow. I think the various drumming issues may throw it off for some people.

It's actually a bit tricky to play...try it!

Brian
Click to expand...


I got nothing against using odd or varying time sigs...I've done it a couple of times with songs...but to my ear, as soon as I heard the riff, it just seemed to me it would come of stronger played against a straight 4/4, the riff would pop out more...so my point based on that was that I saw no value to the odd sig other than just for the sake of doing it.

Of course....you may be hearing it differently, and that's cool.
Oh...and I agree, the drumming issues made it come off messier than it really should be. Even with the odd sig, it should flow and feel natural, if that makes any sense.
 
FWIW, I thought it flowed nicely as an odd time riff. Sure it could have been made into 4/4, but any odd time riff could be. To me, it doesn't sound forced or "just for the sake of it" more than any other odd time riff. It would sound nice in 4/4 as well, though. Different strokes I guess.
 
RAMI said:
...It's amazing how people can complicate the issue until you realize that all you need to do is simply COUNT. Time signatures take a bout 4 seconds to figure out if you just....COUNT.

12 pages of discussion with people over-dissecting where accents and 16th notes fall. All of that is irrelevant. Just....COUNT. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...
U da man, RAMI!:thumbs up:
 
FingerzAndKeyz said:
U da man, RAMI!:thumbs up:
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Well, thanx but I don't know about "DA" man. I'm "one of many" men. :)


Wait, let me check.....


Yup. I'm a man. :)

---------- Update ----------

After reading this thread, I'm beginning to think that I'm only 7/8 of a man. :(
 
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