Tips for Collaboration?

Battlegun

New member
Greetings all! I was wondering for those with experience in collaborating with another member, what tips can you share so that communication and workflow between the two producers is as efficient as possible? I'm interested in eventually collaborating soon, so any help is appreciated.
 
I've been doing an internet collaboration with a drummer and two singers for going on a couple of years. The process will depend on how the work is to be divided up, and who is doing what. I've never tried co-writing. In my collaboration, I write the songs and play the guitars, bass, and keyboards. As the songwriting and arranger, I'm in the position of quarterback. Here is our work flow:

1. I write a song and record a demo version with my own vocal, programmed drums, and instruments (sometimes the full instrumentation, sometimes a stripped down version. I try, as much as possible, to establish a solid groove because the first order of business is to get the drummer something he can work with.

2. I send the drummer the following stems as .wav files: vocals only (that took nerve at first, but I'm over it!), programmed drums only, and guitars, bass and keyboards only. Separating the vocals out to their own stem is not strictly necessary but the drummer prefers it, and I understand why. I'll also send him an Mp3 of my latest demo mix for reference. I also let him know the tempo so that he can set his DAW to the same--a good practice that makes things easier.

3. The drummer composes and records a rough take of his drum parts, then send the tracks to me. I plug them into my DAW in place of the programmed drums. Then the drummer and I do a little discussion back and forth as to what we like and don't like about the take. The point is to get the groove as solid as possible. Communication at this stage is important, as well as a willingness to be flexible and negotiate as two people will not necessary hear the song in the same way, though at the end of the day both need to be happy with the result. After all that, the drummer will send me a second take which is usually the final one.

4. I import the final drum take into my DAW. Usually, at that point, I will retrack the bass line to get it tight with the drums. I will either retrack or do manual edits to the other instrumental tracks to get those sounding tight as well. I want it to sound like the drums are driving the arrangement, not following it. If I did not record a complete arrangement before sending the tracks to the drummer, I'll complete it at this stage, recording whatever additional tracks the song needs. Typically, I'll retrack the demo vocals as well.

5. I send the vocalist .wav files with the following stems: lead vocals only; harmony vocals only (if any); and a karaoke track with the full arrangement minus vocals. In addition, I'll send an Mp3 with the latest mix. I'll also let him know the tempo so that he can program it into his DAW.

6. The vocalist will send me a rough vocal take, or sometime a rough mix with his vocal. I'll make suggestions. Then he will record another take. You'll need to work out with your singer how he wants to deliver the vocal tracks. My preference is for the singer to send three or four takes, unprocessed (no EQ or effects, and only the minimal compression that he needs in his input chain, if any. Three or four takes is usually enough for me to comp together a killer finished take, as well as a double if needed. I prefer to do the comping. I can understand why some singers prefer to do it themselves, so you're going to have to work that out.

7. I comp together the lead vocal track and, sometimes, a double. I do any editing or pitch correction that is necessary (usually quite minimal). I'll also edit or retrack the harmony vocal tracks to blend them with the lead vocal tracks. Then I produce a mix. Usually I'll post a working mix on the Mp3 Clinic here at HR.com where the regulars are very good at pointing out problems (in return, I reciprocate by doing the same for them).

Anyway, that's it. Within the next several weeks, I'll be releasing an album of my songs called "Island Hopping" with River/Men, a collaboration with ibleedburgundy (drums) and easlern (vocals) on the forum here. Ibleedburgundy and I have begun recording a second collaboration, still in its early stages, with Jimistone from the forum. More on that in due course.

Hope that helped.
 
Some great practical advice there!
I'd emphasise what was said in point three. Willingness to be flexible.

The easiest way to kill a collaboration is to be stubborn about something.
Sure, sometimes it's worth underlining or emphasising your view, but if you have five guys who want to be heard all the time no one's going to be heard.

Heh...Might sound silly/easy, but it's not for everyone.

Find a good balance of being professional and having fun and the rest should follow. ;)
 
I haven't collaborated with another HR member but nearly everything i do is a collaboration. Robus gave a great detailed explanation of his process, i can offer some generalities that i have come across.

First off, what is your part in the collab?

If you are writing music and need singing, you should do your best to realize your musical intentions. If you are able to record multiple instruments, you should flesh things out musically for your collaborator. If you don't play drums you should at least find a suitable loop beat or have percussion to define the tempo. If you have a melody you should play it on an instrument, if you have lyrical ideas you should be sure to communicate those as well. If you can do all these things you have provided a lyricist with a key, tempo, melody, and even lyric ideas, not much more you can do to get things started.

If you are writing lyrics to sing and need music, you should try and discern some melody and rhythm from how the lyric reads. If you can even get 1 melodic hook you can start to build a song around it. You could also provide a genre example to the tunesmith to put him/her on the right track. I had a lyricist give me a specific instruction that he wanted a section of lyric to go to 3/4 time (he provided "we can work it out" Beatles) as an example. This was great specific guidance that made for a unique change in the song and a nice challenge as music producer.

If you are collaborating from scratch or a mix of lyrics and music, be prepared to edit your intentions and accept new ideas. The more honest you are about if something is working for you or not, the better. I've let many tunes go because they just weren't working with the collaborator. Usually my own fault for not having specific enough ideas, sometimes it's better to start something new than to labor over something that you think has gone off the rails.

Good Luck.
 
I've been involved in two types of collaboration.

The first is one where my recording partner and I worked together on a project. A critical component for us was to have the same DAW (in our case Reaper), and the same plug-ins. We were geographically close, about 20 minutes by car), so we would transfer file physically. This was handy, because at that time, our internet connections were slow and limited. Version control was important, otherwise things got messy very quickly. Although we did our own stuff separately, there were many occasions when we sat in front of a PC together.

The second type of collaboration was less collaborative. A friend in another state recorded vocals and guitars. He sent them to me and I created and recorded arrnagements, then sent them back. He had no say in what the arrangements would be, and I didn't tell him him what I was doing. All he got was the finished product. This worked because (a) he trusted my musiscal sensibilities, and (b) he like the surprise of hearing what his raw recording turned into to.
 
The second type of collaboration was less collaborative. A friend in another state recorded vocals and guitars. He sent them to me and I created and recorded arrnagements, then sent them back. He had no say in what the arrangements would be, and I didn't tell him him what I was doing. All he got was the finished product. This worked because (a) he trusted my musiscal sensibilities, and (b) he like the surprise of hearing what his raw recording turned into to.

That kind of starts down the path were problems happen, production control. I mixed for on of the guys one of the guys on this board, hip hop I think. He gave the raw files and I guess for me, I didn't realize how much of my mixing really is production. Anyway, when I was done, the guy just said wow! But in a bad way :)

Point here is, production is pretty important.
 
That kind of starts down the path were problems happen, production control. I mixed for on of the guys one of the guys on this board, hip hop I think. He gave the raw files and I guess for me, I didn't realize how much of my mixing really is production. Anyway, when I was done, the guy just said wow! But in a bad way :)

Point here is, production is pretty important.

In this collaboration, there were some things that worked in its favour. We have known each other since university, we have broadly compatible musical interests, he has heard my production work on other (and my own) recordings, and he knows of my tendency to deliver the unexpected. So when he said 'wow', it was in a good way.
 
Thanks so much for posting this. I would love to work with other musicians, as I have been doing everything myself, but I'm really a guitarist songwriter. Anyone know where are the best places to find musicians that have similar musical interests and compatible style?
 
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