Song Lyrics vs Music

You could say the same of people coming to homerecording.com for mix critiques, though, couldn't you? ;)

You could, but you'd be wrong. Here there is often tangible proof that someone does or doesn't know what they're talking about. Some people here walk the walk, and some just talk the talk. You can hear who does what.
 
Most lyrics ARE shit. It helps if you just don't listen to them at all. Good lyrics will never save a bad song but a great song won't suffer from bad lyrics.
What human emotion or topic hasn't been covered by a thousand songs?

I've listened to Appetite for Destruction many times since I was fifteen and I still couldn't tell you any lyrics besides "Welcome to the Jungle!".
 
Lyrics are important, but many peoples idea of what constitutes a "good" lyric is flawed. The perfect lyric is completely ignorable and doesn't steal focus from what's going on musically. Clumsy overwrought lyricism sticks out, catches the listeners attention too much. Gotta be smoove.

I've listened to Appetite for Destruction many times since I was fifteen and I still couldn't tell you any lyrics besides "Welcome to the Jungle!".

Funny cuz I actually use Paradise City all the time as an example of what I was talking about up there. There are a lot of words between those refrains, but not too many folks know 'em. But the right words are in the right places so they glide by without sticking out. That's what I mean by being ignorable. Doesn't mean they're 'bad' or even 'boring'.
 
It's been my personal experience that when you have the music together...the right groove....in the right key...with the right energy....
A lyric put to music flows better than music put to a lyric.
One of my favorite bands is lynyrd skynyrd.
Back when Ronnie Van Zant wrote the lyrics the band would just jam and when they hit a groove he liked he would tell them "keep that going". He would compose a basic lyric, right there on the spot. If he couldn't he told them to go to something else.

The song's they wrote back then are some really great rock songs that flow.
Compare that to the band's new material. They sit down and write out lyrics and the songs sound contrived.

Of course Ronnie was a very good lyricist. But, still he realized that the groove had come first because the emotion of the grove would spark a certain lyric, because of the way it made him feel when he heard it.
 
I don't know if anyone's said it yet (sorry, I'm not gonna wade through 3 pages of comments to find out), but to paraphrase a quote from the movie "Music and Lyrics," the music is the initial attraction that draws you in and makes you want to listen; the lyrics are the personality that makes you want to stay.
 
I don't know if anyone's said it yet (sorry, I'm not gonna wade through 3 pages of comments to find out), but to paraphrase a quote from the movie "Music and Lyrics," the music is the initial attraction that draws you in and makes you want to listen; the lyrics are the personality that makes you want to stay.

I guess what everyone else said doesn't matter? What is the point in joining the discussion?
 
I write the lyric that is in my head and my heart. If I need help, it's usually with coming up with a bridge that works (lots of mine seem unrelated to others, but they're what I feel). I think if I was going to get help with my lyrics, there's only a few people I'd take advice from...which is why I run my lyrics through them before I start.

Now if I could find a lyric help forum that had, say, Neil Peart or Jason Crabb on it...Two totally different styles, but people who can tell a great story while making the melody slide cohesively into the music!
 
I don't know if anyone's said it yet (sorry, I'm not gonna wade through 3 pages of comments to find out), but to paraphrase a quote from the movie "Music and Lyrics," the music is the initial attraction that draws you in and makes you want to listen; the lyrics are the personality that makes you want to stay.

I think I read that sap once on a Hallmark card.
 
I couldn't give a flying monkeys arse what anyone thinks of my lyrics or what any critic might say about any lyric. If I like it, that's all that matters, right?

Why care too much what others think? Bollox to them. Believe in yourself. :thumbs up:
 
There is no formula (think of Robin Williams discussing ways to evaluate quality poetry by Dr. J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D. in Dead Poets Society).
For me, when I look back on songs that I really enjoy, there always seems to be a melody that stands out. There might be other songs that I recognize as being really amazing in terms of the music or have great lyrics, but the ones that really stick with me always seem to have a melody that I enjoy. All personal preference, of course.
 
Let me ask this: you've got great music - instruments, melody - why would you NOT want good lyrics to go with it?
 
It might a case that someone hasn't good good lyrics..or a very easy song like this one.
Good lyrics may be more important for ballads
For rock, I don't know
pop usually have somewhat usual lyrics
 
Let me ask this: you've got great music - instruments, melody - why would you NOT want good lyrics to go with it?

I'm not sure anyone has said that you would not want good lyrics regardless of the quality of the remainder of the song. I think what people are saying is that there is evidence that there are very popular songs that have great melodies and poor lyrics (all subjective, of course), while the number of popular songs with great lyrics and weak melodies is likely much less. We can all sit here and think of songs played every day at sporting events or commercials or whatever (however one wants to judge "popular") that often have poor/mediocre, yet typically repetitive, lyrics. However, the converse is rarely true - there are rarely popular songs constructed from first rate lyrics and a poor melody/instrumentation/production/etc. Again, I can't emphasize enough that "great," "poor," "weak," and so on are all very subjective.
 
Just thought I'd add that rayc is a superb lyricist and I've enjoyed the imagery he is able to convey. Shameless plug now go listen to his tunes and see if I'm not right.
 
Thanks Greg for posting this song. I couldn't tell you how many times I have sung a version of this song while driving without ever realizing it was an actual song. My kids always think I'm nuts when I sing it. Must have heard at some point in my life and been rolling around my brain ever since!
Again, the song that makes all of this moot. Best song ever written.

 
Thanks Greg for posting this song. I couldn't tell you how many times I have sung a version of this song while driving without ever realizing it was an actual song. My kids always think I'm nuts when I sing it. Must have heard at some point in my life and been rolling around my brain ever since!

Maybe the Family Guy Jesus episode?
 
Maybe the Family Guy Jesus episode?

No, I've never watched it. Probably heard it when I was a youngin', maybe from my sister who would have been in her teens around the time this song was released (at least I'm assuming in the sixties).
 
A great southern rock lyricist (ronnie van zant) let his band (Lynyrd Skynyrd) jam and when they hit a riff and groove he liked he told them "hold what you got". He wrote the song right there on the spot and if he couldn't come up with a song in 5 minutes he told them to move on to something else. The music and the lyric was a spontaneous thing with them. The music triggered the lyric and the lyric flowed with the music. None of their stuff ever sounded contrived. Also, Ronnie never wrote down any of his lyrics.
He said "if you have to write it down to remember it, it ain't worth remembering"
 
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