Recordings for Copyright (U.S.) - How extensive a recording?

I want to copyright a song.

I intend to make a digital submission to the United States Copyright office.

How extensive should the recording be? In other words, what level of production is best?


SPECIFICALLY:

a) I write based on guitar and voice in most cases.

b) I can add a bass part, a simple digital drum/percussion track, basic synth fills and perhaps a harmony vocal.

The embellishments in item 'b' above might CHANGE later when the song is produced as a commercial recording.

SO...

a) Should my recorded copyright submission be limited to just guitar and voice?

b) Or should I include embellishments that MIGHT/COULD prove to be recognizable "hooks" in the commercial recording - aspects of the song that are important to protect? (On the other hand, those same aspects might be changed or edited out entirely...)

Thanks
 
I do electronic submission to the Copyright Office.
All you really need is a good, clear representation of the song...chords/melody/lyrics...and that's it for copyrighting the music.
Now, if you also want to copyright the actual production, the way the music was recorded and mixed...then you probably would want a very close representation of the mix.

IOW...there are a few types of copyright you can get.
Since I submit what is pretty much the mix...I get the one that automatically covers both music and production...not that I worry about someone stealing my production...it's just easy for me to get both at once.
Otherwise to protect the music...like I said, a clean representation is sufficient.
 
I don't think you can really copyright the production as such; you copyright either the song itself (basically lyrics and sheet music) or a particular given recording of the song which has a specific solo or other "hooks" etc...in that way I guess you could say you're copyrighting the production though.

It sounds like to play it safe, b is your option. Not sure how it works if the song changes in what you think is a particular significant way and you want to "replace" your copyright on that with a new version.
 
TWO takes in one recording: Guitar-and-Vocal, followed by Guitar-and-Synth Melody

Miroslav and Joey2000 ==

Thanks to Miroslav and Joey2000 for your helpful comments.

1. I don't understand the concept of copyrighting the production of a song. What exactly would be protected in that case?


2. If I hire session musicians they'll play accompanying parts very differently compared to my original DIY parts. And as Joey2000 mentioned, I don't know what's involved in modifying the existing song copyright to reflect changes made during production...


QUESTION
As an "average vocalist" my pitch isn't always perfect, so I MIGHT submit a recording that consists of two takes.

Recording, Part A: Guitar establishes chord changes. vocal establishishes melody and lyrics

< < < Three seconds of silence > > >

Recording, Part B: Guitar establishes chord changes. A clear, simple synth piano provides an unquestionable melody

So if the song runs 3 minutes, the total recording would run 6 minutes 3 seconds.


DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF THAT'S AN ACCEPTABLE WAY TO SUBMIT THE SONG?
 
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No, what you are suggesting is 2 versions of a song, that won't work.
Are you planning on (eventually) having a full production recording? If so, just copyright that. I wait until I have a whole CD worth of tunes and copyright them as full collection (saves time and money).
 
Thanks for helpful suggestions.

No, what you are suggesting is 2 versions of a song, that won't work.
Then how about this? Perform all verses with vocal to establish melody and lyrics, as usual. BUT... add instrumental verse in the middle with the piano playing the vocal melody (no vocal).


Are you planning on (eventually) having a full production recording? If so, just copyright that.
I want to protect the song prior to making it available to session players and others. Too many times I need to run it past somebody who isn't entirely trustworthy.


I wait until I have a whole CD worth of tunes and copyright them as full collection (saves time and money).
I would LOVE to take advantage of filing a COMPILATION, but I need to copyright this one song NOW.
 
IANaLb...

If your concern is protecting the core song (lyrics and melody), you only need a recording of those. If you want to protect the arrangement, you'll need pretty close to the full arrangement.

Unless your vocal take is really bad, it's probably sufficient for copyright purposes. If you're really concerned about it, I would play the piano and vocal melodies simultaneously. (So, guitar chords, vocal melody, and piano melody)
 
Hey, Steve ==

IANaLb...
What is that? :D


If your concern is protecting the core song (lyrics and melody), you only need a recording of those. If you want to protect the arrangement, you'll need pretty close to the full arrangement.
Until now, I've been focused on copyright protection of the lyrics and melody. I figure that's the core of the song - the marketable essence of the creative work. I may be wrong (and would appreciate further discussion!) but I've been thinking of bass, lead guitar, synth fills, percussion and vocal harmonies as embellishments. I have utmost regard for those musicians, but in terms of COPYRIGHT I think of those parts as "decoration" applied to the primary song.

The EXCEPTION is when I write a song THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE BASS PART, or something like that. If the bass part is a signature feature of the song it needs to be present in the copyright recording - and so would any other "signature" aspect of the production.

DO YOU GUYS AGREE?


Unless your vocal take is really bad, it's probably sufficient for copyright purposes. If you're really concerned about it, I would play the piano and vocal melodies simultaneously. (So, guitar chords, vocal melody, and piano melody)
HA! :D I like that. So Steve, correct me if I'm wrong. I read you as saying there's probably no problem in inserting a no-vocal, instrumental-only verse for the purpose of establishing the melody for the copyright. AND as an alternative, you're suggesting I play the piano simultaneously, behind the vocal on at least one verse/chorus or wherever the vocal melody exists.

IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?
 
Woah...you're really overthinking this. :D

Basically copyrighting the "sound recording" or "production" as I stated...is so that your version of how the song is performed is protected in case someone wanted to cover/record the song, and just copied your production.
Like say if someone covered your song, and then they recorded it with their own arrangement and production style...they could copyright that "sound recording" of your song, which is copyrighted by you.
Get it?

So...again...if you need to copyright the song, melody and lyrics is fine, and it makes sense to do it with basic chord backing.
This idea of doing two separate things...vocals/melody and then instruments chords...is only going to confuse the issue.
Either sit the piano and play/sing the song all at once...or strum a guitar and play/sing the song....
...or do those things as three recorded tracks and then just mix them together, if you can't play and sing all at once.

If you want to copyright the arrangement and complete recorded production, then you can also add "sound recording" copyright.
They make it easy if you want to copyright both, by using one single form/code...rather the individually...but if you are in a hurry to protect the song copyright...then just strum-n-sing, and get the most basic rendition down, and upload that. You can always come back later and copyright the sound recording too...but then it's a second/separate copyright.
I always wait until I have the song pretty much recorded and mixed, and then I do the combination...and it won't matter if you then go in and do some adjustments etc and remix again, unless you completely change it around.
 
Hey, Steve ==
vomithatsteve said:
IANaLB...

What is that? :D
I am not a lawyer, but... :D

The EXCEPTION is when I write a song THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE BASS PART, or something like that. If the bass part is a signature feature of the song it needs to be present in the copyright recording - and so would any other "signature" aspect of the production.

DO YOU GUYS AGREE?
I would think so, but that's out of my pay grade

play the piano simultaneously, behind the vocal on at least one verse/chorus or wherever the vocal melody exists.
That one. So as Miro described it, you have 3 tracks for the whole song.
Vocals (establishing the words)
guitar (establishing the chords)
piano (establishing the melody)
 
Woah...you're really overthinking this. :D
Or perhaps not thinking enough. I engage in both approaches on a regular basis. :D

Thanks for your detailed and helpful assistance, and for your patience. I read your comments/advice carefully and studied online over the weekend. 'Looked at dozens of web pages and I still don't know if I understand completely. This page at DIY MUSICIAN offers a pretty concise explanation of Form PA vs. Form SR. IF I read it correctly, it says:

1. As the songwriter, I'm primarily interested in protecting the marketable core of the song: Lyrics, Melody and Basic Accompaniment/Arrangement.

2. Electronic submission of the song (it's essence as described above) to the Copyright Office is accomplished by way of a digital audio recording.

3. I'm not interested at this point in protecting "a great performance" of the song. At this early stage I'm just establishing copyright that enables me to freely present the song material to other musicians, etc without it being stolen.

4. THIS IS ACCOMPLISHED BY ME FILING U.S. COPYRIGHT FORM PA (Performing Arts) which includes the accompanying basic digital audio recording described above.

~~~~~

5. Later, when I produce a commercial recording of the song with full production, THEN it might be worth paying to register a second copyright for that particular performance of the song. I would do that if I think that recording is likely to SELL WELL.

6. THAT WOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED BY FILING U.S. COPYRIGHT FORM SR (Sound Recording).

~~~~~

7. If some other recording artist wants to record my song (registered under my Form PA) s/he must obtain my permission first. My Form PA registration of the basic song is THE LINCHPIN for my control of the song's use.

8. That other artist cannot register a Form PA, but s/he would be able to copyright his/her performance/recording of my song.

9. S/HE WOULD ACCOMPLISH THAT BY FILING U.S. COPYRIGHT FORM SR (Sound Recording) which gives that artist legal control over his/her recorded performance only.

~~~~~

So am I on the right track now?
 
That's pretty much what I've been saying. :)

Keep in mind that there is NO downside/penalty for using form SR now...even if later you record your song more formally or with a different production flavor...and then you decide to file another form SR.
IOW...you don't have to use form PA just because it's only the "core" song you are copyrighting.

AFAIK...form PA is the older/original way to file..when publishers simply submitted a written composition.
Then when the Copyright Office started accepting sound recordings as proof...the SR form came into existence...and it created the "option" of using the SR to kill two birds with one stone.

Since most of us file electronic or hard copies of our recordings these days for copyright purposes...it just makes sense to me to always simply use form SR.
I see no benefit in using form PA, unless I was going to actually submit a written version of the song.
If I was going to re-record the song 5 different ways...and wanted to protect them all, I would file form SR 5 times, one for each, and on each SR submission also indicate that I am the owner of the core music, and copyright that too.

Not sure why you are stuck on the "should I PA or SR?" question.
Just go with SR...cover both. :thumbs up:
 
But how do you protect the lyrics if they aren't crystal clear in the recording? Pls don't say "well make them clear then"....I don't disagree per se, but it's not exactly uncommon for performances to have at least parts where it's hard to make the lyrics out.
 
I see no benefit in using form PA, unless I was going to actually submit a written version of the song.
If I was going to re-record the song 5 different ways...and wanted to protect them all, I would file form SR 5 times, one for each, and on each SR submission also indicate that I am the owner of the core music, and copyright that too.

Not sure why you are stuck on the "should I PA or SR?" question.
Just go with SR...cover both. :thumbs up:
Man! After hours of study I STILL got it backwards?! :facepalm:

Here's a Copyright.gov link I just dredged up from my weekend's worth of 'bookmarks.' It spells out very clearly what you just said (again):


"When to Use Form SR (Sound Recordings)

Use Form SR for registration of published or unpublished sound recordings, that is, for registration of the particular sounds or recorded performance.

Form SR must also be used if you wish to make one registration for both the sound recording and the underlying work (the musical composition, dramatic, or literary work)."

In other words, use Form SR to register copyright for a) the basic song, AND b) a recording of that song at whatever level of production suits you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Double-check me one more time: In submitting form SR, there is NO hardcopy/paper lead sheet, sheet music or printed lyrics. The only representation of the song is a digital recording that you either upload or physically mail in on a CD, etc.

If that's true, Joey2000's question in post #14 deserves serious consideration.
 
But how do you protect the lyrics if they aren't crystal clear in the recording? Pls don't say "well make them clear then"....I don't disagree per se, but it's not exactly uncommon for performances to have at least parts where it's hard to make the lyrics out.
I agree. I used to submit a paper lead sheet with notation melody and lyrics below each staff line, as well as printed lyrics arranged in stanzas, like poetry.

Half the time I can't make out what a singer is saying, even on expensive, professionally produced recordings. So how are the lyrics being submitted under form SR?
 
It's been a couple of years since I did any electronic registrations (actually getting ready to do several soon)...
...but I am 90% sure that along with your audio file(s) you are also able to attach PDF files to each registration.

I seem to recall that I added a PDF file as a basic lead sheet (sans melody notes) with just the lyrics and chords written over them, like you would see with a typical guitar tab...etc....for each of my song registrations.

You should go online, and first register with eCo...if you have not already done so.
https://eco.copyright.gov/eService_enu/start.swe?SWECmd=Start&SWEHo=eco.copyright.gov

Then you can browse around and find out all this stuff. You can start a song registration and I think as long as you don't finalize it, you can add files, etc...then you finalize the submission and pay for it..etc...if I recall.
 
Got me....I would hope you could submit 2 files per song, an mp3 (or wav, whatever) of the recording and a text file of the lyrics.
 
Yknow this is important, because I just know someone would try to steal my million-dollar, ground-breaking stuff.

:drunk:
 
Just thinking out loud mostly, but I wonder if you record an instrumental and later write lyrics for it, could you just submit the lyrics and reference the previous copyright? Anyone know? (This is a possibility with me as I just want to record keyboards first to get recording down in general, then add songs w/vocals later) I guess you could submit both with just as much effort, but then you're submitting the recording twice and I could see where later that might cause a little confusion....

Another one: what if you submit individual songs, but then later want to submit some or all of them as an album (in effect copyrighting the album, not just each individual song)? Again the overlap issue.

I think I could drive some poor Copyright Office person crazy. :)
 
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