Do you/will you copyright your songs?
- Thread starter joey2000
- Start date
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
It's hard to answer. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
I've recorded about ten CDs of my own material, and none but three tracks are registered.
On the other hand, I've recorded four CDs with my musical collaborator, and all our compositions are registered.
However, I hold no high expectations of being a target for plagiarism.
I've recorded about ten CDs of my own material, and none but three tracks are registered.
On the other hand, I've recorded four CDs with my musical collaborator, and all our compositions are registered.
However, I hold no high expectations of being a target for plagiarism.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
There's probably some real old, very early, novice songwriter stuff that didn't get registered, but otherwise, I've been registering mine since the '80s.
Back then it was all hardcopy forms, and you had to send in a cassette if you were registering both song and performance/production, which is how I do it, since it doesn't cost anything extra to do both at the same time.
Back in the early 2000s. the Copyright Office started their electronic, online registration, and I volunteered to be part of the beta-test group, so I signed up for it day-one...and I've been using the electronic/online ever since.
It costs a little less than mailing in hardcopy forums and media...and it's also faster...since they get overloaded with mail, and they said it takes them as much as 6 months to even open your envelope, then you wait another 6 months to get back your registration certificates.
With the electronic filing, the whole thing takes about 6 moths. Once you set up your account, it's pretty easy, and you just upload your audio WAV files with the online form....and once you have an account, it minimizes how much you have to type in online...you just go to your account.
Anyway...it's something I like to do, it just makes the whole copyright thing official, and you get the certs back to prove it...and it brings full closure to your songwriting....not to mention, if you should ever need official proof, it's already there. Sure, the act of writing a song automatically makes it yours....but it's not legal proof. I mean, I don't find the official registration and cost that big a deal not to do it...especially if you are putting songs out on the interwebs, and releasing CDs. The way it is these days, everyone is suing everyone even stupid shit like 3 chord progressions...so, might as well have it officially registered.
Back then it was all hardcopy forms, and you had to send in a cassette if you were registering both song and performance/production, which is how I do it, since it doesn't cost anything extra to do both at the same time.
Back in the early 2000s. the Copyright Office started their electronic, online registration, and I volunteered to be part of the beta-test group, so I signed up for it day-one...and I've been using the electronic/online ever since.
It costs a little less than mailing in hardcopy forums and media...and it's also faster...since they get overloaded with mail, and they said it takes them as much as 6 months to even open your envelope, then you wait another 6 months to get back your registration certificates.
With the electronic filing, the whole thing takes about 6 moths. Once you set up your account, it's pretty easy, and you just upload your audio WAV files with the online form....and once you have an account, it minimizes how much you have to type in online...you just go to your account.
Anyway...it's something I like to do, it just makes the whole copyright thing official, and you get the certs back to prove it...and it brings full closure to your songwriting....not to mention, if you should ever need official proof, it's already there. Sure, the act of writing a song automatically makes it yours....but it's not legal proof. I mean, I don't find the official registration and cost that big a deal not to do it...especially if you are putting songs out on the interwebs, and releasing CDs. The way it is these days, everyone is suing everyone even stupid shit like 3 chord progressions...so, might as well have it officially registered.
dudernut
New member
You are correct in saying that simply creating the content and adding the (C) is a way to copyright. However, from my understanding, even if you can prove that you wrote it first (which can be difficult), you are not able to collect damages. Basically, you can tell them to stop using your song, but you cannot get back any money you missed out on. I'm no lawyer though, so no one quote me on that ..."Your honor, the stranger from the online forum clearly said...!!"
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Mmmm...I think you can collect damages...but first, you still have to go and register the song anyway with the Copyright Office...and then you have to prove that you wrote it first, which the after-the-fact-registration doesn't do for you.
If you do register it at time of composition...and someone steals it at a later date and they also register theirs...you already have the official proof that yours was *registered* first, and therefore *may* be the original. Of course, it will still get disputed who actually *wrote* it first.
The registration mainly establishes a legal path for you.
Just putting you name on it and a "c" doesn't do anything more than give notice, assuming you are distributing copies where the "c" is shown.
Not sure if anyone else does it...but when I put out electronic audio files...like MP3...there are ways to code info and copyright notices in with the music...so when it's playing back in a media player, that info is displayed. That way you are giving notice.
I guess people can also use the interwebs as some proof...like if you posted your song on Soudcloud on a given date, it could shown that your version preceded someone's version...but again, that doesn't on it's own prove you actually *wrote* it first....but all those things, including the official registration with the Copyright Office will weigh in your favor, and help establish ownership.
No matter what...you're going to court if you expect anything to be resolved.
If you do register it at time of composition...and someone steals it at a later date and they also register theirs...you already have the official proof that yours was *registered* first, and therefore *may* be the original. Of course, it will still get disputed who actually *wrote* it first.
The registration mainly establishes a legal path for you.
Just putting you name on it and a "c" doesn't do anything more than give notice, assuming you are distributing copies where the "c" is shown.
Not sure if anyone else does it...but when I put out electronic audio files...like MP3...there are ways to code info and copyright notices in with the music...so when it's playing back in a media player, that info is displayed. That way you are giving notice.
I guess people can also use the interwebs as some proof...like if you posted your song on Soudcloud on a given date, it could shown that your version preceded someone's version...but again, that doesn't on it's own prove you actually *wrote* it first....but all those things, including the official registration with the Copyright Office will weigh in your favor, and help establish ownership.
No matter what...you're going to court if you expect anything to be resolved.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I register about 50% of the stuff I release. Depends on how "important" I view the project to be or if there are collaborators. (Always copyright collaborations!)
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Just wanted to add (since I worked at an IP law firm) that copyrighting your music is simple and easy. And cheap. I believe you can even do it all online now through the USPTO's website. It's so easy that it's almost a no-brainer for anyone publicly releasing their music...
um, but I still haven't done it. not smart.
um, but I still haven't done it.
not smart.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Just wanted to add (since I worked at an IP law firm) that copyrighting your music is simple and easy. And cheap. I believe you can even do it all online now through the USPTO's website. It's so easy that it's almost a no-brainer for anyone publicly releasing their music...
um, but I still haven't done it.
Right?! It's cheap and simple... but still enough of a hassle that it's hard to get motivated to do it.
The upshot, is now we all know whose songs we can all steal.
Steenamaroo
...
It's automatic in the UK too, but proving it is the issue.
PRS are the main royalty collection agency here. I register everything with them but that's not about protection. That's about getting paid.
Their advice is as follows.
"How do you protect your music as a songwriter or composer?
Currently, no official form of registration is available.
In the UK, all original music is protected by copyright from the time it is recorded or written down in some format.
It is important to be able to prove that you own the copyright of a particular recording.
To do this we suggest the following:
It may be the wrong attitude but I always figured the sheer volume of digital files, emails referencing, burned copies, online references, iTunes/prs/ppl etc registrations, notifications to publishers etc would be enough.
I don't expect I'll ever have to prove ownership of a song as a result of theft but, if I have to, it's going to be easier for me than the other guy.
Heh....Here's hoping.
PRS are the main royalty collection agency here. I register everything with them but that's not about protection. That's about getting paid.
Their advice is as follows.
"How do you protect your music as a songwriter or composer?
Currently, no official form of registration is available.
In the UK, all original music is protected by copyright from the time it is recorded or written down in some format.
It is important to be able to prove that you own the copyright of a particular recording.
To do this we suggest the following:
- Post a copy of the recording to yourself by special delivery. Clearly mark the envelope so you know what music it holds, but keep it sealed.
- Store a copy with your solicitor or bank manager. Remember to keep a receipt and be aware that this method is likely to cost you some money."
It may be the wrong attitude but I always figured the sheer volume of digital files, emails referencing, burned copies, online references, iTunes/prs/ppl etc registrations, notifications to publishers etc would be enough.
I don't expect I'll ever have to prove ownership of a song as a result of theft but, if I have to, it's going to be easier for me than the other guy.
Heh....Here's hoping.
joey2000
New member
No, that's not a copyright, but many would agree that there is little if any need....
Exactly...that's about where I'm at. The odds of anyone trying to steal anything of mine is pretty close to zero, even if I am crazy enough to post it publicly for sale AND someone is desperate/stupid enough to try and copy it.it's something I like to do, it just makes the whole copyright thing official, and you get the certs back to prove it...and it brings full closure to your songwriting....not to mention, if you should ever need official proof, it's already there. Sure, the act of writing a song automatically makes it yours....but it's not legal proof. I mean, I don't find the official registration and cost that big a deal not to do it...especially if you are putting songs out on the interwebs, and releasing CDs. The way it is these days, everyone is suing everyone even stupid shit like 3 chord progressions...so, might as well have it officially registered.
But as you say it doesn't cost much and if you do decide to try and sell, it's a kind of insurance in that way. Plus yeah, to me it does feel like it lends some credibility or "officialness" to it all....No, he's not, and no, it isn't. Using a (c) and calling that a copyright is like writing in some extra zeros on a $1 bill and saying voila, it's now $1000 bill. (oh if only!)
Not true, but that said, it would be extremely hard in most cases.
I believe it costs about $30 per submission. The nice thing is a "submission" can be one song or 100.
Thx for the replies. Basically, I think odds of you ever "needing" that copyright or successfully defending against (let's face it, highly unlikely) fraudulent use, and not losing money in the process due to legal fees, are really small. But again, for some the peace of mind is worth it. That's what I was curious about.
joey2000
New member
Even if so, that doesn't mean they want it stolen.
And based on that I'm keeping an eye out for you
Nobody's touching my "Cheddar Cheese Girl" classic! Elton John tried and failed.....Even if so, that doesn't mean they want it stolen.
And based on that I'm keeping an eye out for you
Without even hearing it, I can promise you that I don't want it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I dunno Greg...that title has a nice Punk vibe to it..."Cheddar Cheese Girl".
You might even want to lift some chords and lyrics off of the tune, and turn it into a mega-famous hit...make millions off it...
...and then joey2000 can file a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
You then hire the same layers that Page and Plant had, and you walk away without paying him a dime!
You might even want to lift some chords and lyrics off of the tune, and turn it into a mega-famous hit...make millions off it...
...and then joey2000 can file a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
You then hire the same layers that Page and Plant had, and you walk away without paying him a dime!
I dunno Greg...that title has a nice Punk vibe to it..."Cheddar Cheese Girl".
You might even want to lift some chords and lyrics off of the tune, and turn it into a mega-famous hit...make millions off it...
...and then joey2000 can file a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
You then hire the same layers that Page and Plant had, and you walk away without paying him a dime!
I don't intentionally steal tunes though. I'll steal a car, steal someone's girl, steal change from homeless people...but I do't steal music ideas. Any similarities would be coincidence. That's the only difference between me and Led Zeppelin. The only difference.
Meh. I don't. If someone stole my song I'd be so excited about it.
I looked into it once and it seemed that if you wrote it, you have implied copyright. Someone can steal it with or without a copyright and then it would up to the courts...I guess the copyright would improve your standing but still not guarantee anything.
I am not worried.
I looked into it once and it seemed that if you wrote it, you have implied copyright. Someone can steal it with or without a copyright and then it would up to the courts...I guess the copyright would improve your standing but still not guarantee anything.
I am not worried.