Bringing a song into a finalized stage for recording.

[Resurrect]

I have written probably over 1000 songs. Only about 100 of them I consider pretty good. The rest I threw away, or stuffed in notebooks and binders collecting dust under my bed.

I have never had a real problem coming up with lyrics and tunes. Writers block is something foreign to me.

My only real problem is this: How do I bring the song from singing a tune with my guitar to full studio production? Allot of what I do is impromptu. I make up the chording in between verses as I go along. Every time I play the song, the intro is different. Sometimes even the rhythm is different. This is fine for live gigs. But I find that when I have to put down something solid, all the desire to play the song leaves. And it becomes a struggle. I mean, how do I decide what chords to use for the breaks? And once I finally get past that stage with sweat and tears, the hard part really hits: adding drums, keys, and (oh help!) backing vocals. I won't even talk about recording to a click track.

Are there any suggestions from any of you guys to help me make this process enjoyable? If I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, I don't have any drive to do it. And the song comes off sounding flat and dead.

 

[fat_fleet]

My only real problem is this: How do I bring the song from singing a tune with my guitar to full studio production?

You record the guitar and singing, then start adding stuff.

I mean, how do I decide what chords to use for the breaks?

Try different things, use the chords that sound good and don't use the chords that don't sound good.

And once I finally get past that stage with sweat and tears, the hard part really hits: adding drums, keys, and (oh help!) backing vocals. I won't even talk about recording to a click track.

Hm, yeah, recording can be tough, but I guess that's where practice comes in.

Are there any suggestions from any of you guys to help me make this process enjoyable?

Yikes.. I don't know what to tell ya. Drugs? Maybe it's not your thing?

 

[DM60]

I think the difference is, you come up with ideas for songs, rather than completed songs. There is a difference. Almost all of the people here have 1000's of songs, chord progressions, lyrics for songs. The problem comes when you go to make it final (record it and finish it), otherwise it is just an idea you have. Writer block comes in when you take these various song seeds to finish the song, especially when you start writing understanding it is not a song until you can complete it.

Enjoy it, well you have to enjoy the process of completing an idea to enjoy the completed results. At first it will not be as much fun as the instant gratification of grabbing your guitar and coming up with a cool tune. Because, when you record and hear it back from a different perspective, it is different. You also are going from what you hear in your head to what you actually hear and what others will hear.

The way to enjoy it is to learn how to do it well. How to structure the song well for recording, how to add in other instruments, deciding what or what effects not to use and then final presentation (mix down). Once you get past the learning curve of all of this and get really good at it, your song creation goes from writing and singing a song, to that of a composer. Kind of like the next level of song writing, but now instead of sheet music, you are doing it with recording.

 

[fat_fleet]

Enjoy it, well you have to enjoy the process of completing an idea to enjoy the completed results.

Not that there aren't many 'a-ha!' moments along the way. I often go back and forth loving and hating a song many times before it's even close to done. And once you really are done, it's pretty common not to want to hear it again for a while. That's a good thing- you need distance before you can really assess it.

 

[Resurrect]

Yikes.. I don't know what to tell ya. Drugs? Maybe it's not your thing?

Haha! Yeah, not my thing.

 

[fat_fleet]

Haha! Yeah, not my thing.

I meant recording..

 

[andrushkiwt]

I think the difference is, you come up with ideas for songs, rather than completed songs. There is a difference.

Exactly what came to mind when I read the post. An idea isn't a "song" by audience standards, although it might be to the writer or other musicians. If you listen to some of your favorite artists play their music acoustically, you will usually hear how the song was first created - this is a reason I love "unplugged" type music. It's often the raw tune; the core of what the song is. For example, PennyRoyal Tea by Nirvana was performed solo by Cobain during their unplugged performance. When the "song" was first written, you can bet it sounded much like his unplugged version - varying timing, slightly different chord progression (he swaps A major with A minor many times) and bare as bones. It didn't become a "song" to us until it was recorded, which of course relied on him putting together the chord progression, interludes, bridge, outro, bass, and drum parts. The album version is different not only because the other instruments are playing, but the tune had a different feel with the other changes he made once he decided how things will sit. In all honesty, a music producer can do much of this. Smells Like Teen Spirit was a rambling, long mess until Butch Vig helped clean it up and settle on something more appropriate for a large audience. It takes work to make your ideas into a song, but it also depends on what you want to do with it. If you are talking about recording, then try envisioning the tune in your head, while you're writing it, as a full production. Imagine what the bass will be doing, what the drums are doing...imagine the verses leading into choruses and where the buildup might be, if there is any. The more you do this, the quicker you will begin to imagine the entire band playing as you just strum your acoustic. The song will begin to take its full shape in your head. It just takes time, practice, and patience.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I won't even talk about recording to a click track.

I would think that would be the biggest sticking point. If you don't start with a click it's going to be really hard to coherently layer other instruments on.

What I would recommend for your case is:
1. Pick a tempo and set your click (Sorry).
2. Record 2 or 3 scratch versions of the song to that click with just acoustic and lead vox.
3. Pick whichever version you like best and start building the recording off that: layer in other instruments. Probably re-track acoustic and vox to clean up any flubbed notes, etc.

 

[RFR]

Try just taking ONE song and arrange it like a commercial song of an artist you like with a similar song.

Kind of like a cover but not.

What you are doing is copying their production with your chords, melodies and lyrics.

Force yourself to mimic their song. You'll start thinking in terms of what the drums, bass, keys etc. are doing.

You just need to jump that hurdle from thinking like a campfire singer to that of a producer. One that can envision the whole band.

Copying someone else's style as a template is a good start

 

[fat_fleet]

For example, PennyRoyal Tea by Nirvana was performed solo by Cobain during their unplugged performance. When the "song" was first written, you can bet it sounded much like his unplugged version - varying timing, slightly different chord progression (he swaps A major with A minor many times) and bare as bones.

I always assumed his stuff started out more like 'Death to Birth' from Last Days..

 

[Chili]

You got ideas. lots of ideas, that's great. That's the fun part. Getting them into a cohesive, well-recorded song is work. So, you've got to get into that mindset, it will be work. There is a small hurdle to get past the idea part and into the songwriting part.

Consider recording as part of the songwriting process. You have a basic idea of how the song will go, but you don't know how it will all come together. Lay down the basic tracks. We call them scratch tracks. Guitar and vocal; to a click. You really really really should get into the idea of using a click track. Scratch tracks are where you parse out the song, establish the flow, length, sections, feel, and structure. It's kind of like being a song engineer. Designing and testing, review results, make corrections. One reason you should use a click track is because in writing the song, you might find you are using an oddball time signature or you find one measure needs to be longer. Or something like that. This is the part where that comes out and you have to address it.

After your scratch tracks are laid down and tight with the click, you are back to the creative process. This is where it can get fun again. You embellish with musical artistry. Add more instruments, lyrics, fills, solos, etc. As much as you want.

After it's all done, get all the tracks working together. Maybe even cut out some unnecessary tracks. This is the work part again. Then if you're using midi stuff, like VSTi's or virtual drums, you've got to go in and edit the data. This could be tedious work or the high point of creativity; probably depends on your point of view. I personally enjoy it.

There's so much more to going from a thought to a fully recorded song. The songwriting process is just the start, but sometimes the hardest part for someone who is more musician than engineer.

 

[Supercreep]

Hopefully, Resurrect, you're not gone already.

You don't need to stop being improvisational.

What you need to do is find ways to improvise and audition radical changes as you record. I do it all the time. In fact, I grow ideas into songs and songs into records doing just that.

The only obstacles you have are ones you put in front of you. Say, for example, you do exactly as Chili suggests above. But while you're recording the second verse, you want to try it in 6/8. And then maybe a bar of 7 just to be a dick. You can do that. You can add intros and bridges and extra choruses... You can do whatever you want.

100/1 crap to good song ratio is not good. You should slow down and write way less crap, and not let yourself excuse sloppy work just because you are really proficient at being sloppy.

Hard work will generally yield good results.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I always assumed his stuff started out more like 'Death to Birth' from Last Days..

Now THAT'S a movie I avoided...ha. Heard it wasn't too bad, but the guy really wasn't a constantly depressed weirdo that they make him out to be in some of those films. That's the "persona" he took on through the media. It's all hype. Sorry to get off topic. Maybe I can check out a clip of the song on YouTube.

oops. you provided it. ok, i'll check that out once my "internet filter" is off during lunch break. at work.

 

[andrushkiwt]

After your scratch tracks are laid down and tight with the click, you are back to the creative process. This is where it can get fun again. You embellish with musical artistry. Add more instruments, lyrics, fills, solos, etc. As much as you want. After it's all done, get all the tracks working together. Maybe even cut out some unnecessary tracks. This is the work part again. Then if you're using midi stuff, like VSTi's or virtual drums, you've got to go in and edit the data. This could be tedious work or the high point of creativity; probably depends on your point of view. I personally enjoy it.

I relish coming up with leads and background fillers well after the main tracks are down. Nothing like throwing on a "filter" and long delays to make some spacey sounds, or whatever it needs, to fill out the sonic space. "High-point of creativity" is exactly right. The final song starts taking shape here. It's back and forth between between "creativity" (any writing/improvising or even mixing) and "work" (tracking the final parts). great post

 

[Robus]

If you hate recording to a click track, then a good alternative is to loop a simple drum track. Keep it spare unless you are sure what kind of rhythm you want in the final product. The more complex the drum loop, the more it will dictate the groove in the final product. If your grooves sound dead, you might want to study how drum parts are put together. Subtle changes like having the snare a bit ahead of or behind the beat make a big difference.

 

[Resurrect]

If you hate recording to a click track, then a good alternative is to loop a simple drum track. Keep it spare unless you are sure what kind of rhythm you want in the final product. The more complex the drum loop, the more it will dictate the groove in the final product. If your grooves sound dead, you might want to study how drum parts are put together. Subtle changes like having the snare a bit ahead of or behind the beat make a big difference.

I know this is an old thread, but seeing as how I started it, I figure I can bring it back to life. Lol. Robus, you have saved my life with your advice about click tracks. I can't play guitar worth a crap to a click or tone, but once I recorded a simple drumbeat and looped it, I had no problem keeping in time. Thanks a ton!!!