Bands and songwriting

Mr. C

New member
I have a few questions for those of you in bands that play original material:

1. How does the process work in writing cooperatively with other band members if you do so?
2. How do you determine what originals to play, or do you play them all?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
#1 varies quite a bit even the same band. Sometimes we bring a fairly completed demo. Sometimes it's just a riff. It works best if you have chords for the entire song but leave the details up to the players.

#2 Play them all. Your audience will help you filter out the weak ones and don't let pride stop that.
 
I was in a duo who put together a serious original play list:

1. Each song was created by one of us - it was then played at rehearsals and morphed into a final live version with input from both, over a period of time - that could be minor or major. When recorded and registered, each was a 50/50 co-write.

2. Didn't really do them live, just occasionally in rehearsals for fun
 
I have a few questions for those of you in bands that play original material:

1. How does the process work in writing cooperatively with other band members if you do so?
2. How do you determine what originals to play, or do you play them all?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I've been playing in original-material-only bands for over 20 years, ranging from not successful at all, to marginally successful regionally. Here's how we've always done it, and how most bands operate.

1) The writing process varies from band to band, but one thing must be certain - someone has to have veto power. People can bring in ideas, but not everything is going to work. Egos have to be kept in check by someone, or self-checked by the members themselves. There has to be a leader, either officially or de facto. You can't have everyone thinking they're equal. They aren't. I personally usually bring in riffs or sometimes completely finished vocal-less songs, and teach it to the guys. Sometimes someone else does the same. If someone wants to add something to to something I write, I'm open to it, and if I approve, it stays. If I don't like it, I say so, and tell them to save that idea for something else. If I'm being taught someone else's song, I just play what I'm taught and find my own way to make my part my own. I leave lyrics/vocals to whoever has to sing it. I'm not writing words for someone else.

2) If you only have 10 or 12 songs, sure, play them all. Once you get a little further you can pick and choose songs to fit the bill. One of my bands has some heavy stuff, some lighter stuff. We make a set list depending on what kind of gig it is. Your audience, if you have one, will let you know if a song is worth keeping in the set list or not. You can tell when you're losing the room. If it happens with the same song at different gigs, stop playing that song. If there is a song or songs that you particularly like or like to play, then play them regardless what the crowd thinks. Don't be a slave to the crowd. They really don't care anyway. Make yourself happy first, then it will project to the drunk morons standing around through your set.
 
#1 - Generally I'll write something and bring it into practice. I try to maintain some pretense of democracy where I invite the other guys to contribute parts, but I'll correct em pretty fast if they deviate too far from what I had in mind. I love working with folks who I don't have to correct, but they're pretty rare.

#2 - Always play the stuff we're most excited about, which usually ends up being the newer stuff. I personally have never cared much what people want to hear. One of my last bands ditched our most popular song because I got sick of playing it.
 
1) Bands I've been in have used several techniques:
one person just writes a whole song and brings it in and every one adjusts the arrangement as needed - This usually works pretty well if you have a good songwriter or two
Two people sit down together and write a song based on a single riff/idea/lyric/whatever - This has also often worked pretty well for me
One person writes lyrics, another writes music - I've only had one band do this, but it worked alright
Several people bring in sections of a song (sometimes having agreed on key/theme/whatever beforehand) - I haven't done this one much but the results are kind of hit and miss

Really tho, a big part of things is that you want to minimize the difficulty and emotional investment of 1) for purposes of 2). With 2), you want to play your best songs; this means having to ID and cut the weak ones, which can be hard. In my experience, one person writing a song is the easiest. Only one person has invested time and energy into the song; if it's bad, only one person has their feelings hurt. The more people you have involved in songwriting, the more people have a stake in seeing the song played and are likely to pull for it.
You also run into the "mythical man hour" issue. Say one band member can write a song in 1-2 hours. If you decide to have 4 band members write a chunk of song and then merge them together, you have each band member investing 1-2 hours alone plus 2+ hours as a group combining the parts. If the song just doesn't work, you've got a lot of wasted hours and probably at least one bandmate who doesn't understand the sunk cost fallacy.

Really though, it's all subjective. You may get good results out of any number of techniques.
 
In my main band, I write all the songs, but once we start to play it together, we talk a lot about dynamics, removing or adding parts, everyone is free to say anything, we can try and at least, you can have good laughs with any absurd idea, and sometimes, thats what the song needed... and some ideas can become a song, a song we like...
For me its is hard anyway to write a song from the beggining with others...
 
In the bands I've been in where we incorporate original material - the process is always a little different

Question 1 - In almost all cases, one person brings in a relatively completed song (lyrics, melody, chord structure). The song is play in a rehearsal space a few time to let each member develop their parts of the arrangement (bass guitar part, drums, etc.). Sometimes someone in the band may offer some suggested lyric changes or chord changes - or perhaps suggest a bridge, etc.

This process normally weeds out the weaker songs (or at least the songs that the band simply can't get a groove to) - I find the band can pretty quickly decide if the song works, if it works with the preferred genre of the band, etc. - which in part impacts Question 2

Naturally, some bands only have one writer/leader which then dictates everything

Question 2 - If the song has made it through the rehearsal process, the bands normally try the song at 1 or 2 live gigs to see how it is received by the audience, etc. - this process normally eliminates a few originals along the way - and eventually the band agrees on which original songs should be in the set rotation.

I've never been in a band that did all originals - maybe 25% (candidly, my career never offered me that opportunity). The one thing I have learned - never announce to the audience that a song is an "original" until it's been gigged out a few times and well received.
 
Thanks for everyone's replies. My band is concentrating on originals. I think we do a variation of some of what has been mentioned here. The lead vocalist and I write most of the material but others have contributed bere or there. I have a lot of material but because we have vone through so many personnel changes its been one step forward and two steps back. One thing we haven't done is actully collaborated on a somg from scratch. I would like to try this at some point. Even with the songs we have brought to practice everyone pretty much has had some hand at rearranging the to some degree.
 
The best results I've had have been jamming riffs around with the band and the best songs always are the easiest ones to come! I take a stand that if it's hard work it's probably not going to work (I am a lazy B)

Home recording makes it easier to record jams and play round with them at your leisure.

When starting out it's just plain easier to get gigs if you do covers, most clubs and bars wont look at you if you are all originals, plus you do learn something by playing covers and you get paid... IMO

As a PS I've always found that a song wont "stick" until you've played it in front of an audience, the feedback you get definitely locks it in your mind, or as others have said condemns it to the scrapheap.
 
Hey Mr. C,

I'm just gonna answer your first question, as it is a big one:

Working on songs cooperatively is always challenge. Everyone brings their own unique experiences and listening habits to the process and that can create some issues.

You will start disagreeing on what to do musically in some spots. That's just gonna happen - but it's also where the real great co-writes begin.
See it like this: If you don't have any fights, you're not pushing each other enough.

Something that happens to me quite often is that a co-writer will suggest something we do. And in my head I'm thinking "This is terrible, it's never gonna work".
But from doing this for years I know that I have my blind spots and I will always try what is suggested. And quite often - if you have a good co-writer that is - it DOES work.

If it doesn't work, there should be someone who gets to call the shots. This is usually the person who started the song (i.e. who had the initial idea for it).

The best thing you can do to avoid constantly running into these big confrontations where you REALLY disagree, even after trying out both ways is finding another songwriter to work with.
You may just be too different in style.

Keep in mind that you may be wrong, too. If both of you are convinced that the other is wrong, ask the rest of the band for their opinion.

Btw. my favorite co-writes happened with songwriters who have a completely different skill set than I do. Often I'll focus on melody and sound, and let them focus on lyrics and harmony.

Just some food for thoughts, feel free to ask for details if anything is unclear :)
 
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