Double tracking vocals

Really smart guys sometimes don't even know they are smart. :D That guy seemed really smart. How did you like how he talked about mono and stereo. Kind of the same topic we have on "what are people listening too" and mixing to that.
 
That's a great interview, thanks so much for posting it. I think I understood what he was getting at, and now all those "little grey cells" are starting to work overtime. I've doubled vocals before, but find that it's hard work because I'm something less than a natural singer. I once was messing with Audacity and inadvertently delayed one of the vocal tracks I was laying down. It was a great effect on that song, but since I couldn't quite figure out what I'd done, I couldn't reproduce it.

The way he explained it, I think it might be fun to try pressing one of my 3340s into service, just to see what happens. . .
 
I double (and triple track sometimes) because I'm not a good vocalist and it helps to disguise my poor performance behind the microphone. I assume if I had a great voice I'd be happy to single track my vocals but alas.
 
Ironic part of that is, worse' the voc, harder it is to get a 'good' double. :)
And vise verse'.. the less you want to need it.
 
mixsit said:
Ironic part of that is, worse' the voc, harder it is to get a 'good' double. :)
And vise verse'.. the less you want to need it.
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:D Kind of like trying to get a bank loan. They won't give you one if you don't have any money. :eek:
 
Schaddaddy said:
... Just wondering do u guys still double track your voice? If so how do you pan the two tracks?
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Almost always.

Of course it depends on the type of music, but double tracking is "That one thing" that made vocals stand out as "Professional sounding." Something that takes a garage band sound above ordinary. Double tracking, whether manual or ADT became so prevalent in pop music that anything less sounded dull and lifeless. Double tracking falls under the ambience category along with reverb and echo. It makes vocals sound fuller... thicker. It is fundamentally a delay based effect.

As for panning there is no hard rule, but for lead vocals I recommend the two takes be panned no wider than 10 and 2. Layered on top of each other works too.
 
Interesting thread.

I've never thought of double tracking my vocals - probably because I'm not the greatest singer, and I very rarely sing the song exactly the same. I do usually attempt 4 or 5 takes at vocals (straight after one another), then listen to them (alog with the guitar track) individually and then delete the bad ones, and take the best that's on offer. If I play them all together then they're all over the place.

I have a habbit of changing the rhythm of the vocals every time, nothing major, just a 1/2 second longer pause here, an off-beat start somewhere else.

I've got to do some vocals on a track that I was messing around with over the weekend - I've got my guitar tracks laid down (was messing around with endless amp settings) and I'm determined that I'm not going to let this one be another 80% completed track before moving onto my next one.

Ohhhhh, just had a thought - Is double tracking when you physically sing the same vocals twice over (I sometimes do this with my acoustic guitar by having the mic in 3 seperate positions for a fuller sound), or do you mean, singing once, copying the vocals, and then pasting them on another chanel and then changing the eq etc?
 
witm8 said:
Is double tracking when you physically sing the same vocals twice over (I sometimes do this with my acoustic guitar by having the mic in 3 seperate positions for a fuller sound), or do you mean, singing once, copying the vocals, and then pasting them on another chanel and then changing the eq etc?
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In this context, we're talking about physically singing twice. I know the topic of ADT has come into this conversation, too. But, in general, the conversation revolves around singing twice. You can then play with the volume of the "second" track. They don't have to be both the same volume, and rarely are.
 
witm8 said:
Interesting thread.

I've never thought of double tracking my vocals - probably because I'm not the greatest singer, and I very rarely sing the song exactly the same. I do usually attempt 4 or 5 takes at vocals (straight after one another), then listen to them (alog with the guitar track) individually and then delete the bad ones, and take the best that's on offer. If I play them all together then they're all over the place.

I have a habbit of changing the rhythm of the vocals every time, nothing major, just a 1/2 second longer pause here, an off-beat start somewhere else.

I've got to do some vocals on a track that I was messing around with over the weekend - I've got my guitar tracks laid down (was messing around with endless amp settings) and I'm determined that I'm not going to let this one be another 80% completed track before moving onto my next one.

Ohhhhh, just had a thought - Is double tracking when you physically sing the same vocals twice over (I sometimes do this with my acoustic guitar by having the mic in 3 seperate positions for a fuller sound), or do you mean, singing once, copying the vocals, and then pasting them on another chanel and then changing the eq etc?
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Doing it twice, same thing with the guitar double tracking. If you really want to get a fatter sound, playing the guitar twice or recording the vocals twice really adds to the mix. Or you could use the ADT plug in, as that is what it was intended for. Not having to do it twice and the variation in the plug in (tape in the old days) gave it just enough variation to hear the subtle difference.

If you are low on funds (I think Waves ADT is about $200), you can go old school and play twice. Back in the tape days, I could see them wanting something a bit easier. But in the digital world, two takes that are close can easily be manipulated to bring it in line. But I would refrain from the copy past thing, it usually just makes it louder and gives you some panning options.

With that said, if you do copy and past and you like it, then ignore what I just wrote. Because your way, is the right way, for you.
 
I've used that one. I think it is pretty good, not sure what the Waves version gives that this one doesn't, but the price is very affordable.
 
DM60 said:
I've used that one. I think it is pretty good, not sure what the Waves version gives that this one doesn't, but the price is very affordable.
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Yeah, I don't know enough about the real ADT to say, but I can't imagine what more the Waves plug-in would give. As much as I like Waves plugs, they're really expensive and now I think they're slapping "Abbey Road" on everything as a marketing tool and probably over-hyping and over-pricing everything.
 
witm8 said:
Interesting thread.

I've never thought of double tracking my vocals - probably because I'm not the greatest singer, and I very rarely sing the song exactly the same. I do usually attempt 4 or 5 takes at vocals (straight after one another), then listen to them (alog with the guitar track) individually and then delete the bad ones, and take the best that's on offer. If I play them all together then they're all over the place.

I have a habbit of changing the rhythm of the vocals every time, nothing major, just a 1/2 second longer pause here, an off-beat start somewhere else.

I've got to do some vocals on a track that I was messing around with over the weekend - I've got my guitar tracks laid down (was messing around with endless amp settings) and I'm determined that I'm not going to let this one be another 80% completed track before moving onto my next one.

Ohhhhh, just had a thought - Is double tracking when you physically sing the same vocals twice over (I sometimes do this with my acoustic guitar by having the mic in 3 seperate positions for a fuller sound), or do you mean, singing once, copying the vocals, and then pasting them on another chanel and then changing the eq etc?
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Other than using a plug-in like ADT, 'double tracking' means recording a second take. You mention 'deleting the tracks' you don't use. Mute them instead, you never know if you might want to use one in the future.
If you are changing how you sing the song every take, you haven't found the correct phrasing yet. Practice the song before tracking to get it right. Once you work out the best way to sing a song, stick with it, then double-tracking becomes possible. Monitor the last take you did that was good, and try to copy it when recording another take.
 
Thanks RAMI, DM60 & mjphotos for your replies. It makes a bit more sence now. I'm going to have a bash tonight to do this. I'll also have a look when I get home at the free plugins that you suggested.

I'm not short of money, but likewise I havn't spent any on my 'set-up' as I'm only a bedroom player. A couple of guitars, GarageBand and Apogee Jam was all I had a while ago. I've just bought an Apogee Mic so I can better record my acoustic guitar, and vocals, rather than singing up the bum of my iPad.

I'm buying a new acoustic guitar next month (the 19th to be exact as it's a birthday present to myself, dead excited about that as I know exactly what I want!), so I don't think that I'll get much more movement out of the Mrs if I say that I'm spending more on, what only is, a hoby that I'm not very good at.

I may post some results if I'm brave enough
 
witm8 said:
I may post some results if I'm brave enough
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Be brave. Yes, you will take some hits, and yes, the responses will hurt your feelings at first, but you will take those and learn from them. At some point, you have to throw it out there!
 
Yes. Post them. I'm still getting my feelings hurt after all these years. :D
 
I rap and sing (read: autotune and multiple layers) a little bit. When I rap I avoid double tracking usually, however sometimes for emphasis I'll "dub" certain parts, or if I'm trying to be funky I'll do some Aesop Rock style panning and then use my ADT plug in to make it sound funky, but my rap vox are very dry typically.

Now, where the layering gets interesting is my "singing" vox. Because I have a decent-ish range, I can normally sing my part in unison an octave lower and higher than what the "main" vox are, which I record twice, and I do that to create a somewhat harmonious "thicker" sound. And if I want to give it a really mechanical feel I'll ADT the "backing main tracks", or the double of the lead vox in the same octave.

Combine that with distortion, bit crushers, etc and I have a rather unique sound :)
 
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