Another new member wanting feedback/advice thread

D-toks

New member
Hi,

I'm a new member looking for feedback. I started taking vocal lessons in February of this year. I have problems listening to myself since I dislike my speaking and singing voice. In particular, I feel my voice is nasally, my breath support isn't good, and most importantly that my timbre isn't appealing. That said, a few people have said voice is decent but we all know people like to spare feelings so I'm still skeptical.

Can I get some genuine feedback here?

Here are my two most recent songs (recorded using an AT2020 w/ pop filter). I know the songs are not the same genre. R&B is my preferred genre but I really don't know what good song choices for my kind of voice is, if my voice is even good. I would say I'm fairly committed to improving my voice at this point though so the more honest the feedback, the better. Thank you. :thumbs up:


 
I think your tone/voice is perfect for the first song but it's pitchy. I can hear you correcting yourself so you already noticed that. You just need to build some singing muscle I think. I'm not a professional or anything mind you so that's not a technical term heh. Just lots of practice so you can grab a pitch and hold tight, voice sounds great imho, needs practice. Maybe start with pushing with the diaphragm and take deep breaths before your phrases, that helps me a lot. I'm guessing you have a theater background though (same here) so you probably heard all this before.

Sounds great, just needs practice! My amateur opinion.
 
Just as an aside, I really mean practice, we use our voices every day but that doesn't mean anything really for singing. You really do have to practice grabbing a note, holding it, move up a third, hold it. . . I used to think you were born with it or you were helpless, that's not true. It's like any other physical activity I think. Pick a song, put it on repeat, do it a few hours. You want to build muscle memory and hit the right pitch first shot and hold it.
 
Thanks Easlern. I do notice that I run out of breathe singing phrases very quickly. I'm not supporting properly. I definitely need to work on diaphragm and stamina. I also kind of understand what you mean by singing "muscle", there's something lacking and that's a good way to describe it. Can you elaborate more on pushing the diaphragm? Also was the tone/timbre nasal? That's still my biggest self-conscious component of my voice because growing up I was constantly told I speak through my nosed and was mocked for my speaking voice :o. I should be over by now at this age but it still creeps into my mind when. Thanks again for the feedback.
 
Yeah I can see how that kind of thing would stick with you, but I didn't hear anything like nasally at all. That isn't even on the radar to me so I wouldn't give it a second thought if you can help it. It sounds to me like Boyz to Men, just with a less skilled singer. That's really it, not even anything to be embarrassed of, I think if you fixed the pitchiness and breathed better it would sound really good. You picked a couple songs that fit your voice well imho so I'm gonna guess instinctively you know where you want to go with it and you just need to do the work to get there.

Probably see if you can find a vocal coach cause I'm just an amateur myself but hopefully I've been able to give you a little reassurance and an objective opinion.
 
Oh and to push with your diaphragm, breathe into your stomach real deep and then exhale while you sing. It'll feel like it comes from your gut and you can project better without straining your voice. You should feel it in your abs. That's what I know about it anyway.
 
Okay so I've posted a new song and have tried to take your advice into consideration. I think it sounds better and I think I got the vocal to sit in the mix better. Can you tell me what improvements to make from this new benchmark? Thanks.

 
Yeah that sounds a lot better than Kanye even haha! Greatly improved, I think this sounds really good. I think you used the autotune right, it makes things sound good without being robotic.

Did you play guitar too or use a backing track? This is a good cover, nice work. I don't really have any notes on improving this, you'll have to try the mp3 clinic now I think. :thumbs up:
 
Your voice has a pleasant and interesting timbre, but it is untrained and needs strengthening. Easlern noticed the pitchiness . . . this is where practice will benefit you. You can also afford to be a bit simpler in your delivery. It's difficult to pull of vocal gymnastics unless you have full control of your voice.

Backing harmonies on the first song are cool.
 
Yeah that sounds a lot better than Kanye even haha! Greatly improved, I think this sounds really good. I think you used the autotune right, it makes things sound good without being robotic.

Did you play guitar too or use a backing track? This is a good cover, nice work. I don't really have any notes on improving this, you'll have to try the mp3 clinic now I think. :thumbs up:
Thanks for the feedback easlern! To be fair, Kanye is really a rapper first before a singer. I will look at the mp3 clinic later and see what that part of the forums is all about. As for your question, no I did not play the guitar. A great player on Youtube named Kevin Schmitz played it and gave me (and anyone else wanting to cover this song) permission to use it. He also takes requests for instrumentals. His youtube channel is here for your convenience! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvQuXo4zNjzArQ9Xy1KFUfA/videos

Your voice has a pleasant and interesting timbre, but it is untrained and needs strengthening. Easlern noticed the pitchiness . . . this is where practice will benefit you. You can also afford to be a bit simpler in your delivery. It's difficult to pull of vocal gymnastics unless you have full control of your voice.

Backing harmonies on the first song are cool.
Hi gecko zzed! Thanks for the feedback. I agree that easlern has given me great advice. I do practice every day thanks to the fact that our voices come with us whereever we go but I think what you're getting at is more specific focused vocal exercises such as scales and arpeggios rather than just singing along with whatever track pops up in my Itunes correct? In all fairness, I have gotten away from doing such exercises as frequently now that I no longer have a vocal coach, so this gives me good reason to correct that. Also yes, the nature of the R&Beast (see what I did there) is that there are a lot of decorations in the vocals so there is temptation to try that for sure but I will look to simplify things for my next song. I still feel like when I'm singing that I sound like I'm singing within in a cardboard box or something, so I definitely do need to work on gaining more control over my sound and also I'm still trying to find ways to "free the voice", which is something my old vocal coach used to always tell me I should be striving to do. So I think there is a lot of overlap in the feedback there, which is good. Thanks.
 
I really like the tone of your voice, I'm no professional so my tips are really worth 2 cts :)
Before recording a song, practice it exaggerating every syllab of every word to the point where you can hear every letter. This way your brain and your mouth 's muscles can memorized it,but also getting out more sound and air, then take a 5-10 mns break, and forget about it. come back and picture how you would like it to sound, possibly write down/mark down when your voice needs to pitch up or down,also when you need/can breathe(so it does not affect the song). if you have a part that is more difficult, don't force or stress over it,keep it simple but focus on hitting the note and practice until you get comfortable with it, take a lot of breaks in between takes as your voice will get tired,also it helps your brain to unlock the cruise mode so to speak when you sing.

A trick I do also when I sing is to picture the person,a group of person..etc I would like this tune to be sung to, this trick helps the brain to release the emotion but also to add some intention on the singing part.

Anyhow you really do have an interesting tone of voice and I like it very much :)
 
Step one: learn to breathe.
Step two: learn to control your breath.
Step three: Sing with control.

So step one. Go for a walk every day (find the time). Walk at a normal pace. Breathe in for one step and out for seven EVERY eight steps first 10 minutes. (you're learning to breath)
Step two. Breathe in for one step and hold a note for seven. Learn to make the note solid until the end of the eighth step last 10 minutes. (you're learning to control your breath)
Step three. Have a glass of water. Catch your breath. Play a note on the piano (guitar, whatever instrument is handy). Sing the note. Pick another note at random. Sing the note. Record yourself if necessary, so you can hear what you're doing. Do not slide into the notes (if you miss the note, try again. Break yourself of sliding from the wrong note to the right one (glissando)). Do not slide between the notes (take a breath between pitches so you don't go from one note to the other in a long slide (portamento)). (short slide (glissando)=you hit the wrong note and corrected.) (long slide (portamento)= from the first pitch all the way to the second.)

Extend your walk if you like (I used to do 20 minutes out, then turn around and come back) Think I should start doing this again. It's good for the heart and good for the voice! :)
 
BTW, nasal is not bad. Lots of great sounding nasal singers in many genres...learning to sing from your stomach (with power) instead of your head will help.
 
I really like the tone of your voice, I'm no professional so my tips are really worth 2 cts :)
Before recording a song, practice it exaggerating every syllab of every word to the point where you can hear every letter. This way your brain and your mouth 's muscles can memorized it,but also getting out more sound and air, then take a 5-10 mns break, and forget about it. come back and picture how you would like it to sound, possibly write down/mark down when your voice needs to pitch up or down,also when you need/can breathe(so it does not affect the song). if you have a part that is more difficult, don't force or stress over it,keep it simple but focus on hitting the note and practice until you get comfortable with it, take a lot of breaks in between takes as your voice will get tired,also it helps your brain to unlock the cruise mode so to speak when you sing.

A trick I do also when I sing is to picture the person,a group of person..etc I would like this tune to be sung to, this trick helps the brain to release the emotion but also to add some intention on the singing part.

Anyhow you really do have an interesting tone of voice and I like it very much :)
Thank you for the encouragement. I'm not as enthusiastic about my tone as you but this gives me confidence to continue. I definitely do think I could benefit from printing out song lyrics and then writing in where to take breaths. It sounds so basic and obvious but I actually have not been doing that. I've also been working on "flexing" my pecs/abdomen while singing to maintain tightness. Not sure if this is the right approach but I read some articles recently about this. My issue while doing this at the moment is I feel flexing makes me more tense and singing is supposed to be relaxing...so I feel doing this may be contradictory although flexing does help the breath stay in a little longer.

Thanks too about the tip of slowly emphasizing every syllable first, singing the song to someone even if they are not there, and more importantly stressing the importance of taking breaks. The last point is a bit difficult because I do sometimes get frustrated tracking, especially when I make mistakes with lyrics, and thus I often do several (too many probably) takes back to back haha!

Step one: learn to breathe.
Step two: learn to control your breath.
Step three: Sing with control.

So step one. Go for a walk every day (find the time). Walk at a normal pace. Breathe in for one step and out for seven EVERY eight steps first 10 minutes. (you're learning to breath)
Step two. Breathe in for one step and hold a note for seven. Learn to make the note solid until the end of the eighth step last 10 minutes. (you're learning to control your breath)
Step three. Have a glass of water. Catch your breath. Play a note on the piano (guitar, whatever instrument is handy). Sing the note. Pick another note at random. Sing the note. Record yourself if necessary, so you can hear what you're doing. Do not slide into the notes (if you miss the note, try again. Break yourself of sliding from the wrong note to the right one (glissando)). Do not slide between the notes (take a breath between pitches so you don't go from one note to the other in a long slide (portamento)). (short slide (glissando)=you hit the wrong note and corrected.) (long slide (portamento)= from the first pitch all the way to the second.)

Extend your walk if you like (I used to do 20 minutes out, then turn around and come back) Think I should start doing this again. It's good for the heart and good for the voice! :)
I actually do a lot of walking around my school campus to get places and could definitely look to be doing more "purposeful" walking by employing the exercises you speak of. When you do the breathe in is it a sudden intake of air that you then hold or by taking air in do you simply mean just inhale as you normally would and then don't exhale? I'll wait to get that right first before I work with adding notes. I already do drink a ton of water for sure, but a tip I learned from my last coach that you probably already know but just in case someone else is reading this, don't drink cold water during sessions! Apparently this isn't good at all for singing. I will look to do the piano exercise soon. Is it really more a case of do one note at a time, or am I supposed to incorporate scales and arpeggios to this exercise? Thank you!

BTW, nasal is not bad. Lots of great sounding nasal singers in many genres...learning to sing from your stomach (with power) instead of your head will help.
I guess it's not the end of the world to have a nasal voice, but I don't know it bothers me to hear nasality since it is not the tone I'm actually trying to achieve you know? For example, some country singers employ nasality like Rascal Flatts and they seem to be fine with it because it is the twang sound they are seeking. I'm not seeking that you know but it seems to come through anyway, which is what frustrates me. I do believe the diaphragm is key and I'm striving to improve with respect to this. I do think I might try to find a coach again soon. Btw Broken, I'm curious...what do you do with your...face while singing? For example, do you raise your eyebrows, constrict your nostrils, shape your mouth a certain way, or do anything of this sort to help you generate a better/optimal tone?
 
Okay, not sharp, but deep inhale for one step (enough air to push out for seven steps). Trust me, when you try it, you'll see what is meant. If you inhale too little, you won't make the seven steps after a while. If you take in too much, you'll get light headed and start to hyper-ventilate. True on the water. I NEVER drink cold water. I get mine from the bottle on the shelf in my pantry or straight out of the Pur on the tap. The idea of the piano session is to make random intervals and "hit" the new note. Repetition. Play a note, hit the note; up a fourth, hit the note; down a fifth; hit the note, up a third; hit the note; etc. Most people do scales, so I hardly ever mention that. This exercise gets you away from glissandos and portamentos. Using them is sometimes artistic, but a good vocalist should be able to hit the notes without needing a half pitch slide (gliss) or a full on (port).

In response to your other question. Very little facial. Mostly relax the face and throat (having trouble with that myself lately). Put my head back for optimal air flow and sing from below. Forming your mouth for proper enunciation (the way YOU want it to sound, not necessarily the way common English or whatever wants it) is key.
One of the reasons my vocal instructor wanted me to take a foreign language (way back in the 80s) is the way your mouth forms different sounds. Opera wants pure vowels, but modern music is wide open. Some sounds that the mouth can make are not included in the English language. Much of German is spoken in the front of the mouth (Funfundfunfsig). Much of French is spoken with a wide open throat (avec moi). Lots of languages have rolling r's, etc. So learning a second language can train your mouth (incredible amount of muscles between mouth, throat and tongue) to do things you normally wouldn't think of. Really helps when you try to do alternative pronunciations of standard words a la Mac Powell (which I think is mostly from his Georgia accent) and others, to give your vocals originality and change how your voice sounds...
 
Broken_H, I think you ARE a vocal coach. I've seen you mention these techniques before on this forum, and though I have trouble disciplining myself to do them, maybe seeing it repeated will encourage me. Hope so...I need serious help vocally and just logic tells you these exercises will help. Thanks!
 
Okay, not sharp, but deep inhale for one step (enough air to push out for seven steps). Trust me, when you try it, you'll see what is meant. If you inhale too little, you won't make the seven steps after a while. If you take in too much, you'll get light headed and start to hyper-ventilate. True on the water. I NEVER drink cold water. I get mine from the bottle on the shelf in my pantry or straight out of the Pur on the tap. The idea of the piano session is to make random intervals and "hit" the new note. Repetition. Play a note, hit the note; up a fourth, hit the note; down a fifth; hit the note, up a third; hit the note; etc. Most people do scales, so I hardly ever mention that. This exercise gets you away from glissandos and portamentos. Using them is sometimes artistic, but a good vocalist should be able to hit the notes without needing a half pitch slide (gliss) or a full on (port).

In response to your other question. Very little facial. Mostly relax the face and throat (having trouble with that myself lately). Put my head back for optimal air flow and sing from below. Forming your mouth for proper enunciation (the way YOU want it to sound, not necessarily the way common English or whatever wants it) is key.
One of the reasons my vocal instructor wanted me to take a foreign language (way back in the 80s) is the way your mouth forms different sounds. Opera wants pure vowels, but modern music is wide open. Some sounds that the mouth can make are not included in the English language. Much of German is spoken in the front of the mouth (Funfundfunfsig). Much of French is spoken with a wide open throat (avec moi). Lots of languages have rolling r's, etc. So learning a second language can train your mouth (incredible amount of muscles between mouth, throat and tongue) to do things you normally wouldn't think of. Really helps when you try to do alternative pronunciations of standard words a la Mac Powell (which I think is mostly from his Georgia accent) and others, to give your vocals originality and change how your voice sounds...

Thank you again. I understand what you mean by the inhalation and the piano exercise. I think playing and matching random notes on the piano will be much more challenging than doing scales because you really have to focus on the pitch and like you said, you can't scoop into the note from another note. I have a small midi keyboard I could do this exercise on.

And got it with respect to the face. I've been contorting my face in weird ways recently just trying it out but you confirmed what I was thinking that it likely is not doing any good. I do focus on stay relaxed though. I definitely have heard that Italian is a language in which you can "bend" vowel and consonant sounds. I do recall learning that is the reason Italian opera will always remain supreme, because you can do so much more with the melodies thanks to the way the language works.

Sorry to ask another question but I agree with einstein, you are a good teacher haha! So my question is when it comes to keeping your diaphragm strong, how do you do that without becoming tense? Because essentially you have to "flex" a little to maintain the diaphragm but flexing is a tense motion to sustain no? Or should I not think of it like that?
 
I would have to repeat my first post here. The exercise that I'm talking about is to strengthen the diaphragm, then control the diaphragm. It will become natural...also, some tension in the stomach area is necessary, just not lots. What I'm focusing on is getting your face and neck muscles relaxed. If you start to feel pressure/fatigue at the back of your jaw, you're straining to hit the notes (usually happens when you're singing a song with limited range at the top of your range. If you start to feel raspy in your throat, you're pushing your cords too hard, or you're not singing in your natural voice. A good vocal coach can hear it's going to happen before you get there. Problem with the second is, you'll get the polyps (google Matthew West polyp for one example).

Einstein, thanks for the compliment, but I just learned from a good vocal coach in the early 80s. I remember most of what it was that he taught me, but I'm no way qualified to do the job. Requires hands on and ears on that I just don't have. :) The one thing I remember him always stressing was to hear what you do...i.e. record your sessions and listen back. It's amazing what you'll catch when you listen instead of do...
 
Thanks again Broken. Your feedback has been really helpful. Thank you to everyone else who has responded as well. I think I have quite a bit to work with for now. I'll report back a little later on. Obviously, I won't have everything corrected by that time but hopefully I'll be going in the right direction :)
 
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