XLR Splitter?

M

metaldrummer

New member
Anyone in here got some XLR splitters?
The thing aboute them is that when you want to record in a live situation, sometimes not all the drums is being miced so what I have tought aboute is to mic all drums, send it to the splitter and split the signal in two. One signal the a recording computer and the other to the PA. So now the engineer can just use the bassdrum mic if he wants and I have all the drums in to the computer.... So I can mix all the songs after the concert.... But isnt the splitter very expencive?
BUT! I am going on a electronic school so I have the opertunety to make the splitter all by my self. Is there anyone in here that got splitters? Or buyldt that thing before?
 
I built a 48 channel, 3 leg splitter about 8 years ago.

It is a LOT of work!

I did 3 output legs, 1 direct through (for the mobile studio), and two through a transformer because in some places I might have need to split for FOH and Monitors.

You basically need a bridging transformer. I used ProCo MBT-2's, which back then I got for about $42 each. These were a 1 in 2 out transformer. If you don't think you will need 2 outs from the transformer, than the MBT-1 would be fine. I just checked the ProCo website, and they have a recommended price of around $43 for them. I am sure you can probably score them for cheaper than that if you look around and buy at least 24.

It would be a good idea to at least have a global ground lift that is seperate for each leg. You could be fancy and do ground lifts on each channel, or be REALLY fancy and do a seperate ground lift for each channel to each leg! I would recommend just doing a lift for each channel though, because if you need to lift for one leg, they probably all will need a lift.

I wish I still had the thing. I housed it in a SKB case that I used metal on the inside to provide some shielding.

I bought a plate of mild steel to mount the XLR, ground lift switch, and AMP connectors on and drilled every hole myself. I finished it off with some metal paint to inhibit rusting.

I used a 48 channel Whirlwind cable.

I used AMP 25 pin MilSpec "round" type connectors. I have no idea what they really cost cause I did some trading with a guy, but I got word that the connectors would retail around $30 each. Then there was the pins, and the crimping tool. The pins were gold plated and as I recall about $.5 each. The crimping tool was about $60. Each male/female connector pair could hold 8 mic lines. You will at least want your snake wires to teminate at the head box with this kind of connector because it will be much easier to roll up the snake cable if it isn't permanently connected to the head box. You could go with some ELCO connectors, but these are going to be much harder to deal with and will not be quite as robust as the AMP 25 pin connectors will be.

Of course, you have the XLR Panel Mount connectors, which go for around maybe $3.50 each.

Each leg needs XLR inline cannons for each connection. Call it around $4 each for these!

I got the ground lift switches for about $.70 each at a electronics surplus place.

You will need at least two ground bars if you do global grounds. Think maybe $30 each there.

So, let's add it up. Let's just say that you want to build a reasonable 24 channel 100' splitter snake with a 6' snake for the FOH feed, with one transformer leg and a direct leg (by direct leg, I mean a leg that doesn't go through a transformer). We will say that you will have a disconnect of the snake wire at the head box.

SKB 12 space rack - $250
Steel plate - $30
Thin metal for inside of rack - $20
24 x ProCo transformers - $1000
110' Whirlwind W28PR 28 channel snake wire - $385
24 x XLR Female Panel Mount - $85
48 x XLR Male inline cannon jacks - $190
24 two pole switches - $20
12 AMP 25 pin connectors - $ 720
300 pins for AMP connectors - $150
Crimp tool - $60

Total: $2910

I probably forgot a few small things. Also, this assumes that you have a good soldering gun, and all other tools you will need to do this.

Not too bad. I spent about $1500 more than that on parts, but a pro audio shop I dealt with estimated that if I had that snake built by any company, it would have cost me about $8-10K!!!

So, obviously, there are plenty of areas where you can cut costs! You could try to go without transformers, but you certainly run a big risk of weird stuff happening in the audio! Also, the loads on the preamps I believe get messed up.

You could forego any of the amp connections.

There is really no other place you can skimp. I suppose you could get a smaller head box to work with, but you have to REALLY be tight with how you wire everything, and it is a bitch to get in there and troubleshoot stuff.

So, at the cheapest, you could get all your parts for around $800 if you are thrifty, but this would be a non-transformer isolated snake.

You can anticipate around 30-40 hours to build what I did.

Have fun and good luck! If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
 
For some good info, pics, and support on splitters go to Gearslutz.com, check out the stickies in "Remote Possibilities".
 
ps- nice job, Ford. That must have been quite the project. I feel your pain in advance, I'm building a 40 channel version this winter, no transformers at first, just three-way passive.
 
easychair said:
ps- nice job, Ford. That must have been quite the project. I feel your pain in advance, I'm building a 40 channel version this winter, no transformers at first, just three-way passive.
Click to expand...

Enjoy! LOL

I am not sure I would build that again! It was a major pain in the ass! But it was a great snake!

Can you imagine the weight of 100' of 48 pair cable? It was a freakin' workout moving that shit!
 
Ford Van said:
Enjoy! LOL
Click to expand...

:mad:

Thankfully I have a Netflix subscription and an understanding girlfriend. I'm even using the same AMP connectors as you did, they are the same pin as the big Ramlatch connectors, I'll upgrade when I have the money.



Metaldrummer- if you set up mics the FOH guy isn't going to use, you don't have to split them at all. Just run them straight to your recorder. And as long as you can connect to the same AC as FOH or monitor world, and have ground lifts, a passive split will work in most situations. You can make a passive and add transformers later, if you want. It will shave at least $1000 off the cost. If you just make a two-way splitter with two 25' tails, not a whole 100' three-way snake, like idiots such as Ford and me, you will also save a lot of $$.
 
I was actually very impressed with the amp connectors! You could run over them with a car and not harm them.

I had the MilSpec version, and they has metal impregnated in the connector, so they shielded well. I had no complaints really.

I suppose you could go with a short 25' tail, and if you need more just borrow a snake to extend it. Add's more possiblities of bad connections, but if it works, it works.

One thing I learned in audio. OVER BUILD! GET MORE THAN YOU THINK YOU NEED RIGHT NOW. Whenever I go trying to cut corners or "make do with less", it ALWAYS burns me at some point, and I feel like I wasted money.

I knew I would never need 48 mic lines on my snake, but I knew 40 was a big ol possiblity. The extra 8 lines where for just in case I needed to run some audio back to the stage for whatever reason. Of course, if I ever DID need to do 48 channels, I would have had it too. :)

Anyway, think ahead. You might think you don't have much "need" right now, but "needs" tend to grow very quickly.
 
Well, that sounds like a high budget option for a simple request.

What they guy wants to make is a small cable that has one female XLR for the mic that goes out to two male XLRs. Sounds simple enough to create, but will it work?

EDIT: Seems I completely skipped over a big portion of the initial post. (So tired, though I still wonder if that would work, for lower scale splitting)

Rather than building anything, I'd probably try and get permission to patch the inserts. Seems that it would be as much a hassle either way. (As either way you'd be creating more issues for the live engineer to go through)
 
There has been some good advice here. However, as a FOH engineer, I would not let anyone patch into the inserts of my console while I was trying to mix a show. If I did, how would I run comps? As an engineer, I have no problem letting someone patch in a split snake. As a recording engineer, I would not want my cables plugged halfway into an insert jack so there was no chance of them being nudged free. Also, if a cable that is half inserted gets pushed all the way in, there is a good chance it will kill the signal on that channel. Basically, using inserts just isn't a professional way of doing things. It opens the door to all sorts of problems for both the FOH and recording engineer.

I have to give it to you Ford Van. There is no way that I would have the patience to sit down and build a snake like that. Just for fun though, I put together a quote for a 56 channel snake with a 100' main trunk, 25' monitor trunk, M176 connectors for both, and ground lift switches on every channel as well as transformer isolation on the split trunk. What I came up with was about $3900, and I would not have to touch a soldering gun or crimp tool:D If you were to not use the MASS multipins (which are awesome multipin connectors), the ground lifts, and the transformers, the price would go down to around $2200 (premade, hand soldered). I can also do a 24 channel split only to stage box with 2 15' trunks (basically made for a 24 track recording and to integrate into an existing snake) for about $650. I am actually about to pick one of those up to drop into a specific club for a 10 day run that I need to do.
 
Yeah, no doubt that you can find some decent pricing on splitter snakes.

Back in 1997, there just wasn't as many resources that you could google. ;)

Who did the quote? What transformers? $3900 isn't too bad for a one split tranformer iso snake.

Add the second transformer iso leg and what did it come to?
 
Alexbt said:
Well, that sounds like a high budget option for a simple request.

What they guy wants to make is a small cable that has one female XLR for the mic that goes out to two male XLRs. Sounds simple enough to create, but will it work?

EDIT: Seems I completely skipped over a big portion of the initial post. (So tired, though I still wonder if that would work, for lower scale splitting)
Click to expand...

Yeah, Y cables work just fine for the most part. That's all a passive splitter with no transformers is, a bunch of Y cables in a box. I used to have 16 Y cables that I used as my split for monitors, and I set them up for recording a few times as well. Like I said, being on the same circuit as FOH goes a long way towards eliminating any ground loop problems most of the time.

A passive direct splitter with ground lifts gives you a simpler way to deal with some ground loop issues, is neater, and saves some set-up time, that's all.

A passive transformer split totally isolates each piece of gear, pretty much gauranteeing a clean signal on both sides. Not all ground loop problems can be solved using ground lifts or using the same power, other problems can come up linking two consoles, lots of recording trucks have generators, etc. and so for many pro location recordists, it's worth the expense.

After that, there are active splitters, and active splitters with transformers. Time to sell the house :p.

Just for perspective, most every sound company and band in the world used or still uses passive splitters with no transformers (Y cables in a box) for monitors, from Joe bar-gig up to world-class events in huge stadiums, with pretty much zero problems. Transformers are/were usually for recording or broadcast, and even then I bet more often than not in the past, non-transformer splits were the way more common way to go, no matter what they were used for. And in some situations, the recording guys will take the passive split anyway, and have the FOH guys take the transformer split, as they feel the direct passive split is a more pure signal.

There is some neat stuff out there on the high end. I think it's either the Grand Ole Opry, or Austin City Limits, I can't remember, they have all remote-control mic pres with active splits on stage that feed the various consoles, for instance. Some high-end location recording rigs use this setup too, and it's getting more common on high-end live gigs as well. Digital snakes are starting to gain some ground. Same deal, pres on stage controlled by computer. But that stuff is the bleeding edge, with a bleeding-edge price.

For most of us, passive with no transformers is just fine, either Y cables or a box or a splitter snake. The next time you go see a show, and think the vocals are great, think for a second that the mic is probably driving at least two mic pres through many hundreds of feet of mic cable. :D

ps- Horizon, EWI, and ProCo make some nifty four-channel rackmount transformer splitters, pretty cheap, too. Many companies also make single-channel versions in a DI-type box.
 
Ford Van said:
I was actually very impressed with the amp connectors! You could run over them with a car and not harm them.
Click to expand...

Those things rock, yup. Rugged, and they are relatively extremely cheap, even the metal ones. The tool alone for Whirlwind MASS connectors is over $300, if I remember, and the connectors are that much and more. Makes a $120 tool and $10 connectors seem cheap.

The only reason I will replace the AMPs is that the big Ramlatch connector will be one plug for forty channels, as opposed to five 8 channel plugs, and they use the exact same pins. At that point I will upgrade my rack disconnects to the AMP connectors. I'm using some ELCO disconnect patchbays from Audiopile/EWI right now, modified to go vertical in the back of my racks. Great deal. 16 channels in a one space rackmount box, 1/4" TRS on one side, 15' ELCO disconnect-TRS snake on the other. The whole thing was less than $300. I agree with you, the ELCOs are fine for some things, but I wouldn't use them on a splitter or a snake. Just not durable enough.


Ford Van said:
Anyway, think ahead. You might think you don't have much "need" right now, but "needs" tend to grow very quickly.
Click to expand...

Werd, even if it's at the hobby level. Almost more so, sometimes, as many of us can only afford to spend money once, and won't see income from our efforts for upgrades.

Anyone got 200' of 40-channel multicore they want to get rid of cheap? :p

I mentioned making a 2-way splitter with shorter tails as many recordists don't need a full-on 100'+ live sound snake, and can patch in their splitter at FOH or monitors, without having to drag all that cable around, or add expensive disconnects.

I'm gonna make or buy a separate recording splitter, actually, for those times when recording land is at FOH.
 
Also, making connections to mics with TRS and phantom power, you run the risk of damaging the mics. It's really easy to short the phantom to ground through the mic transformer, which it will not like.
 
I was gonna point that out too, but figured screw it. LOL

Don't ask how I KNOW that phantom running down a trs doesn't like to short out! Luckily, the studio had some replacement parts for that Telefunken pre. :o It was a beautiful sparks display though!
 
I put the quote together myself. About a year ago when I bought my new console I opened a cable dealership when I figured out how much cabling this beast was going to take. My console has 3 180 some pin Elco connections, and 68 DB25 connectors. I knew for certain that I did not want to build that many cables. I was shocked when I got the price list and founf out how much people mark up cables for sale (average seems to be about 300%). I mark mine up a flat 40% and charge for shipping. Mostly I guess I can do that because I really am not in the retail business. Just helping friends get better cables for less money. Of course there is that 40% though:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top