That Wide Stereo Sound...

12foot

New member
So Ive tried many things to get that stereo seperation, and my best results seem to come from Audition 3 because it has a feature built in to do this...
Ive tried to get that sound in my old Cubase program by recording 2 tracks, panning a bit, phase inversion, blah blah,..but not really sure of the proper technique. Can never get that sound I hear on a CD...
 
There are plugins that will do it for you, but like anything else, use them sparingly. I don't have the names of any off the top of my head, mine are built-in to the mixing software I use (Reaper).
 
K..thanxs. Just can never get it to sound quite the same for some reason. Keep in mind I record direct in to a PC with no mics, does that make a difference?
 
K..thanxs. Just can never get it to sound quite the same for some reason. Keep in mind I record direct in to a PC with no mics, does that make a difference?
Yep, because getting a spacial sound means you need space. The room you record in plays a huge part in getting it.
 
its a panning thing for the most part, and not just hard L and hard R, you have to set up your eq, gain structure, and dynamics so that when you throw something say 68 % right you know that the track is already unique compared to similar tracks in that particular mix, this way the track will stand out way out in left (or right) field without taking away from something else
 
Ive tried to get that sound in my old Cubase program by recording 2 tracks, panning a bit, phase inversion, blah blah,..but not really sure of the proper technique. Can never get that sound I hear on a CD...


Phase Inverting would not do what you want, might even make it worse.

Do the two track thing, like you said, hard pan them Left and Right, then put a delay in one of the tracks. Just one track... maybe 5ms - 20 ms. Honestly, I'm not quite sure how much of a delay. I never did understand Cubase's time code thing when you nudge tracks. The longer the delay, the more stereo separation you'll get... to a point. Experiment a bit to understand how it will work for you.

To add the delay, zoom in nearly all the way. Turn off the 'Snap To' feature in your DAW. Grab the track in question and slide it Left or Right, whichever you choose, until you moved it the amount of time needed to get the effect you want.

Hope that helps....
 
4 sure...i did that once by accident, noticed it didnt sound all that bad, but also didnt think it was a proper technique....then I tried it again once to see, but could never get it to sound quite right..
 
4 sure...i did that once by accident, noticed it didnt sound all that bad, but also didnt think it was a proper technique....then I tried it again once to see, but could never get it to sound quite right...My story is I can get much of anything to sound quite right. Volume issues when I get more then 4 tracks, blending issues with distortion and cleartone...the list goes on.


Keep working at it. Nothing comes overnight, but you pick up a little along the way and each bit helps to make it sound better. It's all the little details that come together to make it sound good.

Work the search function, find threads that talk about what you're looking for. Listen to tunes in the MP3 clinic and read what advice gets offered. Be sure to make comments yourself, even if you're just commenting on whether you like the song or not. When it comes time for you to post something, you'll get a better response if everyone sees you commenting on their tunes.

peace.
 
I know it was glossed over up there somewhere, but it's worth reiterating -

"Space" and "depth" come from SPACE and DEPTH. Not from some goofy "stereo widening" plug (which is doing nothing more than screwing up the phase relationships in the mix).

If you put a mic 4" away from every source, figure your mix is going to sound about 4" deep - reverb aside. Adding reverb to a signal is NOT the same as recording a signal from a distance.

Whoops - I'm sorry - My math is wrong. If you mic every source from 4" you can expect the mix to sound about *0* inches deep. Not 4. It'll sound 4" away, but everything will sound 4" away. That's 0" total.

Everything in recording is about contrast - Contrast in volume, contrast in spectral color, contrast in distance and depth. If you don't take advantage of that contrast, you wind up with "flat."
 
I know it was glossed over up there somewhere, but it's worth reiterating -

"Space" and "depth" come from SPACE and DEPTH. Not from some goofy "stereo widening" plug (which is doing nothing more than screwing up the phase relationships in the mix).

If you put a mic 4" away from every source, figure your mix is going to sound about 4" deep - reverb aside. Adding reverb to a signal is NOT the same as recording a signal from a distance.

Whoops - I'm sorry - My math is wrong. If you mic every source from 4" you can expect the mix to sound about *0* inches deep. Not 4. It'll sound 4" away, but everything will sound 4" away. That's 0" total.

Everything in recording is about contrast - Contrast in volume, contrast in spectral color, contrast in distance and depth. If you don't take advantage of that contrast, you wind up with "flat."
That was me... :o
 
I know it was glossed over up there somewhere, but it's worth reiterating -

"Space" and "depth" come from SPACE and DEPTH.


When the OP mentioned trying it with 2 tracks, I thought he meant he was looking for a specific effect and not so much giving each track its own space. You know that effect where you hear the same guitar part distinctly in each ear. Who was that, Phil the murderer Specter???
 
I know it was glossed over up there somewhere, but it's worth reiterating -

"Space" and "depth" come from SPACE and DEPTH. Not from some goofy "stereo widening" plug (which is doing nothing more than screwing up the phase relationships in the mix).

If you put a mic 4" away from every source, figure your mix is going to sound about 4" deep - reverb aside. Adding reverb to a signal is NOT the same as recording a signal from a distance.

Whoops - I'm sorry - My math is wrong. If you mic every source from 4" you can expect the mix to sound about *0* inches deep. Not 4. It'll sound 4" away, but everything will sound 4" away. That's 0" total.

Everything in recording is about contrast - Contrast in volume, contrast in spectral color, contrast in distance and depth. If you don't take advantage of that contrast, you wind up with "flat."


This is some excellant advice here. Spot on.

I use the UpStereo plugin available from these guys and find it to be very helpful in this noble quest. A lot of really good mixes seem to some spacial effect added to them. More that just panning and mic placement stuff.

http://www.quikquak.com/

Use sparingly and it should help you get closer to where you want to be.
 
It's also good to remember that the phase thing can work both ways; bad phase coherence can also "narrow" the field by causing each track to fight each other in a way that diminishes each track's solidity. Sometimes, full panning - without extra psychoacoustic spread - doesn't sound as effective as it should because of phase incoherence between the two tracks.

The old "check the mix in mono" trick can eb helpful in diagnosing this, but for even finer tuning, grab a copy of the free Inspector plug from Roger Nichols Digital, and check out the phase coherence metering it offers. (Ozone also has a phase coherence meter, if you already have Ozone. If you don't I just can't bring myself to recommend it, and would rather recommend Inspector.)

G.
 
I know it was glossed over up there somewhere, but it's worth reiterating -

"Space" and "depth" come from SPACE and DEPTH. Not from some goofy "stereo widening" plug (which is doing nothing more than screwing up the phase relationships in the mix).

If you put a mic 4" away from every source, figure your mix is going to sound about 4" deep - reverb aside. Adding reverb to a signal is NOT the same as recording a signal from a distance.

Whoops - I'm sorry - My math is wrong. If you mic every source from 4" you can expect the mix to sound about *0* inches deep. Not 4. It'll sound 4" away, but everything will sound 4" away. That's 0" total.
I really enjoy at times trying to come up with new ways to turn’ basic recording ideas in ways that hopefully engage the reader, to get their wheels turning’. There’s always dozens of ways to teach a concept- But few of them actually set the reader up to really understand.
This was superb. :)
 
.. Ive tried to get that sound in my old Cubase program by recording 2 tracks, panning a bit, phase inversion, blah blah,..but not really sure of the proper technique. ...
They say 'know your poisons’ -to better pick them. :D
Part of ‘wide is contrast.
One clean centered mono surrounded by other elements with little center coherence is contrast. A dozen stereo things are not.
Tracks ‘split, polarity inverted and or delayed 5-20 ms or so and panned are wider’ but static, not itself a very convincing stereo. Make that a pair of delays panned, source center, opens even more options. Width, diffusion of the source, and or generally setting it ‘back in the field. Modulating those delays helps break up the 'static thing.

Panning the delays in’ towards mono crosses over from ‘spread width/diffusion, to ‘center depth’ (a good option to help with the contrast- again against other wide elements.

Double tracking the part brings a large advantage of the parts not being static replicas of the source –but work in very much the same ways – Very tight, close doubles (as with delays’ within the precedence effect time window) appear to be ‘one' with spread/depth or diffusion -even the combing' effects of the short delays. Out side of the precedence’ window they sound as two’ or separate things.
 
I've used all the built-in plugins for logic 7 and 8 Pro. I never use these stereo simulation plugins at all in my mixes because quite frankly they are junk. I believe there are decent ones out there that cost a pretty penny, but it's just not worth it.

Here's a few suggestions.

1) Copy a track, say for example a guitar, and hard pan the two left and right. Now on your copy, run a delay that is 100% wet. Adjust the time until it sounds good to you. If the part is busy though, this quickly makes the part sound unclear and muddy. If it is a more simple part though, this approach can yield good results with a very short delay time.

2) Take your original track, and send it to an aux with a reverb plugin. Set the reverb's pre-delay accordingly. Sound travels at approx 1000 feet per second (yes, I know that's not exact and there are other variables to consider, but it makes the following calculation much easier on the brain). That means that for every 1ms you set the pre-delay, the effect will simulate the source being 1 foot away and reverb'd... so if you set the predelay to 30ms, The verb will make the sound much bigger and spacier.

3) Use both a mic and your DI. I don't care if you have to go to radioshack and buy a 10 dollar mic. You will probably be happier using that and your DI, than your current situation.

As previously stated, space and depth only come from one place. You gots to use the real deal!
 
I've used all the built-in plugins for logic 7 and 8 Pro. I never use these stereo simulation plugins at all in my mixes because quite frankly they are junk. I believe there are decent ones out there that cost a pretty penny, but it's just not worth it.

Here's a few suggestions.

1) Copy a track, say for example a guitar, and hard pan the two left and right. Now on your copy, run a delay that is 100% wet. Adjust the time until it sounds good to you. If the part is busy though, this quickly makes the part sound unclear and muddy. If it is a more simple part though, this approach can yield good results with a very short delay time.

2) Take your original track, and send it to an aux with a reverb plugin. Set the reverb's pre-delay accordingly. Sound travels at approx 1000 feet per second (yes, I know that's not exact and there are other variables to consider, but it makes the following calculation much easier on the brain). That means that for every 1ms you set the pre-delay, the effect will simulate the source being 1 foot away and reverb'd... so if you set the predelay to 30ms, The verb will make the sound much bigger and spacier.

3) Use both a mic and your DI. I don't care if you have to go to radioshack and buy a 10 dollar mic. You will probably be happier using that and your DI, than your current situation.

As previously stated, space and depth only come from one place. You gots to use the real deal!
Go through all of that, or just track a second guitar part. I think that is a better option in the long run, because a copy-and-paste track is just a duplicate of the original, and there isn't enough variation between the two to get good separation, even with the best delay money can buy.
 
You should all listen to the massive master , and stop pissing in each other's pockets , Take away all your bullshit plugins and you couldn't do shit.....all the bullshit information on these sites is leading newcomers up a dead end street....I've sat back for years and seeing recording going to shit . close miking of sound sources and direct recording is crap and always sounds like crap , the source is where the good shit happens and trying to put some artificial plugin or device on later is not really great.....

Space and depth is at the source.....

if any of you actually went to recording school you would know that you are thrown 2 x100 dollar microphones (dynamics ) and you have to do recordings , you have to make them sound good with space and depth ....you do not get the chance to use plugins or any artificial devices..........Just EQ

the room you record in (space) and the distance (depth) stereo (Width) from microphones
 
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