Where did my output go?

B

BeagleFaceHenry

Member
Hi! Help!
I usually use Calkwalk X2 for editing, not recording (I record on a Tascam DP24), however my band has an opportunity to record in a beautiful theater, so wanted to step up our game. I found us a used Tascam-1641 16ch interface so I can record 16 (14 actually as I learned) tracks, but now I'm recording straight into Calkwalk for the 1st time. I spent the last couple weeks practicing in my bedroom, but last night was the 1st (and only) practice session with the band before the big event.
I told you that story so I could tell you this one....
Last night everything tracked wonderfully, however I was not able to monitor post fader. Does that make sense? Pardon my newb-speak, I'm "self-taught" if anything. Basically, I can't hear during recording. We need the output for the vocals. I was able to get the pre-fader monitor, but that was EVERYTHING, not just the 1 track I want. I believe I was able to do this in my bedroom, but for some reason it didn't work last night.
The output worked, because I was able to hear playback. I don't know if this is a clue, but I was not able to output to a bus either. I was able to select my outputs from the bottom of the track strip, but nothing happened. If I route a track to the master bus, I didn't see any signal at the bus, similarly, if I route to OUT1, no signal made it to the amp.
Is this normal?

I had to run vocals through the PA 1st, and use an AUX Out to get back to the Tascam, but I'd rather go the other way around. We're recording "live" and I'm recording 2 different room mics, so I I'm hoping to use Eq, Compression, and a little tube pre from Calkwalk on the vocals.

I can try to explain better, but I know I'm rambling. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
-j
 
Not really sure what your problem is but I use X3 - The master needs to be sent to an output - like I send mine to my U42S Interface
 
Thanks for the input ido, I may not be explaining myself well.
I'm not really trying to send anything to the Master, I just did that as a test. My issue is nothing seems to be outputting live. When I arm the vocal track, I want to hear it in the Output. Last night, nothing was audible during recording. Playback was just fine (playing the recording back worked through Out1), but not while recording.

I did try routing the track to the Master Bus to see what was happening (the Master was routed to Out1), and I saw that NO signal was going to the master bus. I thought that was curious, and possibly a clue.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
I had to run vocals through the PA 1st, and use an AUX Out to get back to the Tascam, but I'd rather go the other way around.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand you correctly: you wanted to run through Cakewalk to the PA and use processing in the computer live? If so, that's not "how it's done". The standard live recording setup uses an XLR splitter on all inputs to send signal independently to the PA and recording setup. You don't want the show to be dependent on the recording rig or the recording to be dependent on how the PA is operated.
 
So do you want to route the individual Sonar Track vocal to OUT1 (which I assume is your interface) so that is all that you hear while recording?
 
Thanks Boulder, this certainly isn't an ideal setup, I know.
We're just recording, no one will be in the audience, so I'm not worried about the 'performance' too much. We did end up splitting last night, however the only effects I can offer my vocalist come from Sonar. I don't really want him too effected, but since we're recording room mics, I'm hoping to have him Eq'd and compressed a little (he's pretty rough around the edges).

ido, yes, the only track I need really want to hear during recording Track 1(vocals). Everyone else is loud enough. I may want to run the harmonica through the PA as well since the little 5W amp can't really compete with my guitarist's Mesa.

My biggest question isn't about method, it's what happened to my output. I'm 99% sure it worked when I was trying it out in my bedroom but didn't work last night. Should it work? Should I be able to output a track (post fader) and hear it during recording?
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
Thanks Boulder, this certainly isn't an ideal setup, I know.
We're just recording, no one will be in the audience, so I'm not worried about the 'performance' too much. We did end up splitting last night, however the only effects I can offer my vocalist come from Sonar. I don't really want him too effected, but since we're recording room mics, I'm hoping to have him Eq'd and compressed a little (he's pretty rough around the edges).
Click to expand...

I would still do the split and insert a hardware compressor on the vocal channel and use the channel strip eq. Also, it's best not to compress vocals in monitors, but most mixers' monitor sends are post insert so sometimes you have to compromise. What mixer are you using for the PA setup?
 
Thanks Teddy! I remember seeing "Input Echo" in the preferences. I didn't bother playing with because "echo" scared me off. I hope that's it, I'll try it tonight.

Boulder, if all goes perfect, I'm just running the Out1 into either a powered speaker or power amp. If not, the only mixer we can bring is a small, no-frills, no effects 8 ch mixer. We don't have a hardware compressor (yet).
 
With no audience the "PA" would be just for vocal monitoring, right? In that case I wouldn't be all that concerned about capturing the room sound, which would relieve me of worrying about room mics or providing live vocal compression. I would split the XLR from the vocal mic and run one through the basic mixer for the live sound and the other to the recording setup. A little eq on the mixer and the natural reverb of the room should be enough "effect" for the singer. Vocal compression in monitors is almost always a bad idea anyway.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
What's the downside to vocal compression in the monitors? I thought the idea was to make the singer feel as comfortable as possible?
Click to expand...

Generally singers are used to hearing their dynamics so when you compress them they tend to get even more dynamic, sometimes to the point of straining their voices. The more you compress them the more they fight it. Of course there are exceptions, but this is a really common phenomenon.

Related to that is that you might compensate by boosting them in their monitor so during gain reduction they can still hear themselves clearly, but when they stop singing and the gain reduction goes away you still have that boost. That tends to increase the likelihood of feedback.
 
Update:
Input Echo! It was JUST that easy. Thanks for the help guys. I knew it was either impossible, or right in front of my face. I avoided that button the other night because "echo" scared me off. Silly rabbit. Problem solved.

Thanks for the tip boulder. I think we'll rearrange and keep the house and monitor separate so the vocal monitor is clean. I thought it made sense to have the vocal monitor sound better than real life to boost the singer's confidence, but I see you point.
 
BeagleFaceHenry said:
Update:
Input Echo! It was JUST that easy. Thanks for the help guys. I knew it was either impossible, or right in front of my face. I avoided that button the other night because "echo" scared me off. Silly rabbit. Problem solved.

Thanks for the tip boulder. I think we'll rearrange and keep the house and monitor separate so the vocal monitor is clean. I thought it made sense to have the vocal monitor sound better than real life to boost the singer's confidence, but I see you point.
Click to expand...

Something to note, I usually boost (in the headphones) the vocals so I control my voice better and not feel like I am competing with the music. Gives me a more stable recording, no voice strain which means more ability to do more takes. I also see that compression is less needed (or fader control) as I am not so up or down with my vocals.
 
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