what mic pre to buy?

Aha! A flaw in the Berry AIs is revealed. The specification shows..

Max mic input, -4dBu pretty poor.

Max line input, +20dBu pretty good, will ALMOST cope with 'pro' gear.

Max instru input is an APALLING -3dBu !That's only a smell over half a volt rms. Even the wimpiest, plywood Strat on the planet will overload that.

It isn't just the Berry interfaces that suffer from this - my Focusrite can't handle rock drums or loud vocals either.
 
It isn't just the Berry interfaces that suffer from this - my Focusrite can't handle rock drums or loud vocals either.
Oops let us qualify somptum' here.
There's a ton of mics out there that'll do near line level out up on a 110+ dB source.
I used to use Earthworks QTC-1's as my kit pair -line level in (no pre amps).. and still had enough to use these on hard hitters.
Audio-Technica AT8202 Adjustable Inline Attenuator | Guitar Center

Keep two in the kit.
 
Or...just use better pres and interfaces. ;)

I would never even bother with any kind of "interface"...a preamp, and then a pure converter box...but that's me. :)
 
Or...just use better pres and interfaces. ;)

I would never even bother with any kind of "interface"...a preamp, and then a pure converter box...but that's me. :)

[Show your preamps that will take five to ten volts from a mic.]**

And "mic pres" with pad switches to convert them to line in -as that's the other way to get to what we're talking about here.. need not apply.
:p

** Editing to correct this. I was wrong here. Mic pres typically do have the headroom to handle these ranges.

http://mackie.com/sites/default/files/PRODUCT RESOURCES/SPECS/Spec_Sheets/Onyx_1620i_SS.pdf
Mackie Onyx +22dBU .. 7.7 volts

http://www.true-systems.com/downloads/P8MANUAL_1_5.pdf
True Precision8 (the one I thought needed the pads...
+15dBu .. 4.4 volts. (quite a bit lower but.. also starts at a min +15dB of gain.. so?
Thanks Sorry for the detour.
 
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Which mics are you talking about?

I doubt they are using them (whatever they are) when they are talking about their Behringer and Focusrite interface pres crapping out on loud sources.

I tell you...this thread is too funny to read.
I mean...talk about complicating a sunny day. :p
 
It isn't just the Berry interfaces that suffer from this - my Focusrite can't handle rock drums or loud vocals either.

Indeed! AIs, especially 'budget' bus powered AIs have an inherent problem, if they give the mic pre enough gain to make a 57 (say) SEEM useful the headroom must suffer because the internal supply rails may be limited, 12-0-12V or less but most of all because there is only one 'gain' control.

Even the most basic mixers have a gain pot and a channel level pot and so the signal sent from Main Outs can be optimized. Stand alone pre amps also either have a similar arrangement or have switched gain levels and often attenuator pads. The latter were often found on AIs, not commonly these days (costs money!)

So, AI mnfctrs are in a cleft stick, either fit low gain, high headroom pres and get bolloked for that or give it 60dB of gain and poor headroom. I actually approve of the latter design decision. The noob expects a bog S dynamic to work and deliver a decent level and the majority of ~£120 AIs will do that. Where overload is experienced XLR-XLR attenuators are readily available (but of course, a 20dB pad on the AI would be better!) Buying in extra clean gain is expensive, effectively another AI per channel! This is also why I always suggest an SDC to newbs with a pad.

However, IMO the situation is completely the reverse for a High Z guitar input. The likely input level from a passive e-git is well known (unlike mic levels) so it is relatively easy to optimize the gain of the HZ input (git amp and pedal people have been doing it for effing YEARS!) . There no, AFAIK high Z attenuator available?

Dave.
 
Which mics are you talking about?

I doubt they are using them (whatever they are) when they are talking about their Behringer and Focusrite interface pres crapping out on loud sources.

I tell you...this thread is too funny to read.
I mean...talk about complicating a sunny day. :p

Here's a mic.
https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/49f63e6efc082082/at2020_english.pdf
Sensitivity 14mV/PA. Max SPL 144dB.
Microphone sensitivity ratings and conversions explained acoustics microphone transfer factor mV/Pa to sensitivity dB re 1 V/Pa or dyne/cm2 microbar pascal pascals equation formula typical microphone output level mic microphones voltage calculator 0
About half way down.
Follow the sensitivity across to 144dB and get 15dBU.
http://hux.com.au/Soapbox Items/World Audio level Reference.pdf
15dBU = 4.4 volts.

It's late and I could be totally screwing this up. Most mics don't give max output and I've never followed a method like this.
 
It's late and I could be totally screwing this up. Most mics don't give max output and I've never followed a method like this.

;)

I can guarantee without hesitation that I could plug that AT 2020 into any of my pres...and they would handle it without issue. :)
I'm not getting your point here.
Are you saying there are mics out there that can't be handled by decent pres, and you have to run them into Line Inputs...??? :confused:
 
I get 4.2V for 144dB SPL Mix' by a different calculation route so, well inside the ball park but, where you gonna get 144dB SPL? Just 130dB is almost instant hearing destruction and you would need around 50,000 watts into 100dB sens' speakers (lot of!) to get near 144dB!

Re going into line inputs? I have read that this IS done where a mic is placed say inside a kick drum (for an "arteeestic" effect)?

Dave.
 
Miroslav, I want to apologize to you and the board. I went back and did some home work and found out I have been operating with some flat out wrong conclusions here.
Yes mics can output 'line level voltages. But specifically wrong about mic pres not having the adequate head room to handle them!
Wow.
I see now where I had it screwed up. Was occasionally wanting (needing) in-line pads -not for the mic pres! -but the choice of '+4' on the RME A/D scale selection!

I'm inclined to delete these posts. Would that be best?
Thanks
 
Indeed! AIs, especially 'budget' bus powered AIs have an inherent problem, if they give the mic pre enough gain to make a 57 (say) SEEM useful the headroom must suffer because the internal supply rails may be limited, 12-0-12V or less but most of all because there is only one 'gain' control.

Not the case with Firewire interfaces, of course. But god forbid!
 
Miroslav, I want to apologize to you and the board.

........

I'm inclined to delete these posts. Would that be best?

:D

No man...there's nothing to apologize for or the need to delete.
I doubt you're the first person to read specs and get turned around by the numbers...I still do, so I try not to read specs too often!!! :p
 
Not the case with Firewire interfaces, of course. But god forbid!

Never had one, never had a PC with FW TBH but read a LOT of reviews and I do not recall seeing any FW interface with a " gain +channel" control as you find on a mixer? Can you give me an example Mr S?

Dave.
 
Only just remembered that I'd posted to this thread so I thought I'd better return with the specific instances of problems with over sensitive mic inputs. I first noticed this with a C451 on hi-hats and also, to a lesser extent, on overheads on a live recording. Now a C451 is pretty much a standard mic in those applications so I'd expect any mic preamp to be able to handle it. I've also had problems with loud snare drums through an MD604.

I see that the humble Behringer ADA8000 can handle +6dBu while the Audient ASP008 claims to be able to handle +21.5dBu. Focusrite don't mention a maximum input level for the interface that I use but the minimum gain is +13dB whereas the Behringer has a minimum of +10dB while the Audient has a minimum of unity. I've no idea of how the gain and A/D calibration match up on the Focusrite though.

The problem is that I had always thought of Focusrite as a quality manufacturer and the interface came highly recommended by people whose judgement I thought I could rely on so I didn't check all the specs as thoroughly as I should have. It appears that Focusrite were starting to move down market at that time they released my interface and also going into areas where they had little experience. They fixed the sensitivity issues on later models - only to unfix it again for certain subsequent models.

I'm afraid I often feel like I'm ranting a bit when it comes to Focusrite as I think they now trade on their past glories and their current affordable ranges are nothing special.
 
just in case I get overwhelmed by GAS and just have to spend some money, I got notice that these are now in stock. I looked up their specs and if what I read so far in this thread is properly assimilated by myself, it seems like it might be a pretty good fit for me.

Studio 1810 | Tech Specs | PreSonus
 
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