Volume problem (electric guitar recording with dynamic microphone)

blastblister

New member
Hello!

I have just bought some simple equipment to start recording electric guitar at home in my apartment and I have some problems with the input volume. If anyone can provide some helpful expertise I'd be very thankful!

My recording equipment (except for my guitar and amplifier) consists of:

- A Shure SM58 microphone (brand new)
- A U22 XT interface from Esi (brand new)
- Macbook Pro (an older one from 2011) with Logic Pro X

So the problem is this:

The input volume from the guitar is extremely weak and silent with both the amplifier volume and the mic gain on a pretty high level and the only way right now that I can get a normal level of recording volume is to ether have the gain on the interface so high that the sound quality turns to shit, or the amplifier volume up so insanely high that I will be evicted (with the gain on a more normal level).

The volume of the tracks in Logic is not the problem and neither is the level of output gain from the interface. I have searched online and the closest I have gotten to the problem/solution is that it is allegedly caused by the "PAD" on the interface - but mine doesn't seem to have a button or switch for that.

The weird thing is that when I speak directly into the mic very closely (touching it with my mouth) and record, the input and output volume comes out fine, but put it right against the amplifier surface and.. almost nothing (even though the amplifier as mentioned already is on high volume - as high as it could possibly be in an apartment that is).

Even though I've become fairly comfortable with Logic over the years I am not a recording expert by any means and have always had other people as engineers during recording sessions that I've participated in (as a musician)... so maybe I'm doing something idiotic?

Cheers! :)
 
You shouldn't have to put your lips on an SM58 to get adequate recorded volume even in a normal speaking voice.

But, still, it's not making much sense to me!

But, if you have everything set exactly the same for a recording of your voice that's Ok, say with spoken voice at 10-15cm from the mic, then in Logic create a track with duplicate settings, and put the mic the same distance from the speaker and turn the amp up to the same volume. You might use a SPL meter app in your phone to get a "close enough" reading on the volumes, i.e., so you know the amp is about the same volume as your voice.

Record on the duplicated track and don't change anything in Logic or on the interface. Assuming you still have the problem, open up the project in Finder to view the media files and load both of those into Audacity, or some other app where you can see the waveforms' amplitude. Post a picture here if you can, or put the files in a public folder like Dropbox and give us a link. (Leave off http:// or https:// if the site is trying to prevent posting links because of your low post count - we can still get to the files.)
 
The weird thing is that when I speak directly into the mic very closely (touching it with my mouth) and record, the input and output volume comes out fine, but put it right against the amplifier surface and.. almost nothing (even though the amplifier as mentioned already is on high volume - as high as it could possibly be...

So, you speak into the mic and the input to the DAW is fine, but you move the mic from your mouth to the amp and there is no input? Have you tried doing just that? Moving the mic to the amp immediately after getting a good signal vocally? I'm guessing you are either switching something inadvertently or the guitar channel is improperly setup.

So, like I said, get your vocal channel setup going, which seems to be working fine, and then move the mic (without touching anything else or switching a thing) over to the amp. Just physically move it over there and don't touch anything else. If it comes along fine then, then you know the channel strip has something goofy going on.
 
Thank you both for your answers!

Ok, I didn't duplicate tracks but I just recorded myself speaking into the mic in normal volume and then put it on the stand again, pointing it right into the amp (about a millimeter away) without changing anything at all and recorded again (on the same track), playing the guitar at the same pretty high volume as the day before yesterday. I took a screenshot from Audacity and what it shows is me speaking up until 20 in the "timeline" section, and from there on - the almost flat line-, guitar (not sure if I managed to upload it here so I made a link as suggested): ibb.co/j5Hwdn

And I downloaded and measured the speaking-right-into-the-mic/playing volume with an app ("Decibel X") as suggested and they were virtually the same, 90db (I probably didn't speak in 90 db though so I don't now how reliable the app is).
 
I'm afraid one thing to check is whether your SM58 is genuine. it's likely the most faked mi around.

If you go to the Shure site there's a section to help you check if you have the real thing.
 
Hard to imagine anything but a defective mic behaving like that. Here's two clips (pasted together) in Audacity where I just recorded the same thing: my voice measuring about 88dB or so holding the phone while talking into the mic, then putting the mic on a stand so it's 1" in front of my guitar amp, where I'd set the volume so it would read about the same dB.

Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 5.50.41 PM.png

Recording was done with a Shure Beta 57a. I don't actually own an SM58 or SM57, though the latter's on my short list!
 
...then put it on the stand again, pointing it right into the amp...

This may be a dumb question, so please don't take it personally...but are you putting the mic where the speaker cone is...at or close to the center of the cone?
I mean...it's not always obvious where the speaker is with some amp grills. I'm always breaking out a flashlight and holding it up against the grill cloth to see where the speaker is sitting, even on the amps I've had for awhile.
Because...if you were off, and somehow accidently had the mic up against the grill where there's just the wood baffle...mmm...then yeah, you wouldn't get much level.

I would find it odd that there's something bad with the mic or cable...unless when you lower the mic to the amp internally a connection is lost in the mic or the cable...but that would show up if you just moved the mic around while speaking into it.
 
Bobbsy As far as whether the mic is counterfeit or not, I really don't think so. I bought the mic in a big music store in town where I've bought many things before. In any case, I read up on some of the warning signs and also took som pictures if you want to have a look (the logo on the mic isn't a sticker, seems to be normal weight etc): gJJMeS, j9qpYn

DM60 Maybe I should buy another XLR-cable and try, the one I'm using is actually kinda old and have been used on countless vocal recordings over the years with another mic. I'm getting a new one as soon as I can (probably tomorrow).

miroslav Not a dumb question att all! However, the mic is not right in the center but it is within range of the cone, here are a couple of pictures of my micing setup with the amp: iUhQ67, doRk67

Regarding the pictures, now I suddently can't write the whole thing even witout the hxxp or hxxtps, but it's ibb dot co slash the ID :)
 
Well, the mic does look like it's right on the speaker rim but really, it should be showing more volume. I'd start recording at a distance with the mic on a stand aimed at the amp and move yourself toward and away from the mic, alternating playing and talking, i.e., don't change anything. You should be able to match levels.

I'd still want to try another mic as well as cable just to rule out some weird fault.
 
??? :confused:

Ni5WPcK.jpg
 
Well I bought a new XLR-cable and it seems to be working much better now!

(Picture from audacity of guitar recording zoomed in at the same level as the last picture: /hexkRJ
Also, the tracks in Logic shows more volume coming into the mic now)

I still can't get the bounced volume level quite as high as I would like though, it comes out much more silent than everything else in my music library even if I push all the volumes in Logic to the max while having the input gain on a somewhat reasonable level. But I guess that has more to do with production/mastering perhaps?

So even if I am not completely where I'd like to be result-wise I guess the original/actual problem is solved.. In that case, big thanks to all who bothered replying to the thread :) I really appreciate it!
 
...
I still can't get the bounced volume level quite as high as I would like though, it comes out much more silent than everything else in my music library even if I push all the volumes in Logic to the max while having the input gain on a somewhat reasonable level. But I guess that has more to do with production/mastering perhaps? ...
If you're using Logic, then, without using 3rd party plugins, just put a compressor, limiter, loudness meter and level meter on the Stereo Out. Turn the compressor and limiter off, and turn on the level and loudness meter, clicking Start on the loudness meter and set the level meter to True Peak. Play your track through and see what the [true peak] level and loudness are.

For bouncing in order to stream (SoundCloud, et al), you probably want to get it to -14 in the Integrated loudness. You can simply push the limiter gain enough to achieve that and set its Output Level to between -0.5 and -1.0, depending on the dynamics. Then keep dialing the limiter to get the right level. If you've already squashed (overcompressed) your mix, you probably won't be able to hit both targets, but you should strive for that. If the mix is very dynamic to start with, e.g., if your initial level is -20 and you're already hitting -1 or higher peaks, you'll want to compress the mix before limiting, because simply pushing the gain up 6 (e.g.) is going to shave off (limit) the top abruptly, not in a nice, musical way.

Now, of course you can do much more in mastering, using compression, EQ, exciters, etc., but this is a Q&D to get to a semi-standard streaming audio loudness.
 
Are you checking your signal going into logic pre fader? If you are comparing your recorded signal to samples in your logic library, keep in mind that most of those signals are hot to the point of clipping, so not a good comparison. ( I load the gain utility into the channel strip, while checking the pre fader signal, and all of the Logic samples have to be dialed down -16, -18db) Not sure if you were talking about sounds in your sample library, or music on your Mac in general. If the latter, it wouldn't be unusual for a finished project to have more volume than something that has been tracked, but not mixed or mastered.
 
Is the mic/hi-z switch set correctly? Read this from the manual: 4. Mic/HiZ input selection switch, allows you to select the input signal: the microphone input (Mic), the instrument/guitar input (Hi-Z) or both. When the switch is in the middle position and both is selected, the microphone input signal will be recorded on the left input channel and the instrument signal on the right input channel.
 
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