Pinky
and The Brain...
We are likely never going to see eye to eye. I lived in Florida for a year, and I moved back here.
Virtual guitar amps/analog guitar amps
- Thread starter New Guy
- Start date
We are likely never going to see eye to eye. I lived in Florida for a year, and I moved back here.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Really....?
Have you seen the HUGE number of new guitar amp builders/brands/models that have surfaced in the last 10 years or so?
This gear and these builders would not be doing well if amps were on the way out.
Not to mention, there's also been an explosion of new hardware gear for recording....and people are buying.
Look at electric pianos and drums. That stuff has been around for ages....yet production of the real deal is still going strong and people end up using both, since they realize each has a good/bad point.
Sure...software is also selling well....but I think you are maybe viewing things from your own personal use perspective and generalizing that hardware gear is on the way out in some point-of-no-return fashion.
I think there's a lot to be said for the "compactness" and ease-of-use for the new software options, but it's like anything else....often just a cool, "gee whiz" factor for awhile, then people return to their roots...then eventually they find a nice hybrid balance between both (which I think is the best way to go for many situations, live or studio).
AFA guitar amps specifically....I can put money down that they will be around in full swing looooong after you and I are both just dust in the wind....and that specifically applies to tube-based amps. It's a mindset and no self-respecting guitar player is going to show up on stage with a guitar, cord and laptop.
Playing live and recording guitars is more than just the "sound" you end up with....it's also about the process, the journey, the whole vibe.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Which part of NYS...and why, what bothered you after 4 hours?
I only feel that way when I go to NYC...and I've lived in the NJ/NY area most of my life.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
WTF does anything here have to do with you....did I mention you...huh?????
Pinky
and The Brain...
Unfortunately this thread has veered and crapped into new directions, so I'm just quoting this and I'll have to move on. It says everything clearly. I'm sure someone will find this useful in the manner intended. The original subject from the mixing thread was about whether someone should be mic'ing guitar amps i nthe studio. It seems to be the consensus here even that doing that is unnecessary, and that amplification is really only needed for live performances. New musicians should look closely at their wallet and local music scene before deciding if buying the usual stuff is the best use of their cash, or whether focusing on their studio/homerecordings is where their money and time would be best spent.
SwampYankee
New member
I've seen Markus Reuter play guitar and touch guitar with the StickMen (Tony Levin's band) and with The Crimson ProjeKCt (with Levin, Adrian Belew, Pat Mastoletto, Tobias Ralph, and Julie Slick) playing music (including stuff from King Crimson), and he uses a Mac feeding into the house board. He sounds pretty damn awesome, and isn't hauling amps everywhere.
Now, he's playing places where he knows there are adequate systems to jack into. Amps are always going to remain popular because if you're with the band practicing, or playing a party somewhere, or just playing a venue without decent sound, you're going to need that amplification. But to say no one's gigging with sims is just incorrect. It's happening more and more. Markus immediately sprang to mind but I'm sure there are others out there.
As far as recording goes, I have taken tracks that were a bit lifeless because they were done totally in the box and added some punch to them by re-amping them.
There are a lot of options out there, and we always end up balancing tone, cost and portability. No one thing is right for everyone.
Pinky
and The Brain...
That is very true.
Which part of NYS...and why, what bothered you after 4 hours?
I only feel that way when I go to NYC...and I've lived in the NJ/NY area most of my life.
Well we used to go up there when I was racing but it wasn't for visiting or anything. That was "business" and we never left the track area. My wife is from the Syracuse/Oswego area and we've gone up there to visit, and that's what really wears me down. It's just a culture shock, and I don't jive with that kind of life. Even the grass and trees are way different than what I'm used to. And that fucking cold. Fuck that. I'm a gulf coast southern guy, and even though I am a southern guy, I am also a city guy. I like the cities. I like the hustle and bustle. Upstate NY has none of that. But to be fair, I don't like the "country life" down here either, but I at least still "fit in" for the most part anywhere down here.
I do absolutely LOVE NYC though. Love it. Been there many times. I was this > < close to moving there a long while back.
Okay, a professional guitarist playing at places like Madison Square Garden can plug their Mac into the board go crazy. Awesome. How many of us are at that level? How many local players at local bars, pubs, and clubs are doing the same? In my 25 years of gigging at the nobody level in major music scenes, I've seen pretty much none. If it's so cheap and easy, why isn't it more common? It's no secret. People know that option exists. So why aren't more people doing it? Why is everyone okay with amp sims for recording, but no one wants to head out to play live with a laptop under their arm? I think it's because it's A) lame, and B) amps sound better.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
How did you reach that "consensus here" conclusion...???
I agree(d) that hybrid uses of multiple technologies is a good way to go....but honestly, I don't see that people are giving up miking of amps for recording.....unless when you say "here" you are talking specifically about the majority of the home-rec folks, for which it may be more accurate, since most have little options for recording real amps in less than ideal home environments or due to limited budgets.
Some of you are making HUGE generalizations about the demise and use of guitar amps....and I again say it's probably coming from your own, personal use perspectives and not accurate on any global scale.
Sure, sims and computers get use in live situations...but the notion that real amps are often there just for show is not very accurate. Maybe those walls of stacks are just for show
but amps still get used a lot by players and will be for a long time to come.Not wanting to get into the whole real VS sims debate...but sims *don't* always sound like the real thing. Sure, they can be made to sound good, and in some cases (live or studio) can used well....but again, that doesn't mean real amps will fade from use in the next 10 years or whatever number you guys are thinking about.
I watched a lot of the "Crossroads" concerts recently from the last few years, one of the dish channels was running them from back-to-back recently....and I saw an awful lot of amps on that big stage, and every guitar player that came up to play looked like they were using their amp of choice. I'm not saying there wasn't some behind the curtain assistance by their crews...but I doubt the amps where all just for show.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'm not that far up north/west into NYS...and yeah, way up there it is a bit of culture shock even for me....but NYC gives me a headache in about 15 minutes. Mind you, the city is cool AFA what it has available....it's mostly that NYC traffic and the stink that get to me.
I grew up in NJ....then moved to the lower Hudson Valley back in the early '80s...in both cases, it was like "rural residential" but with all the amenities just 10-15 minutes down the road. So it's quiet and mellow, but you're not hours away from civilization....and most of the people have their teeth.
My sister lives in the city (well not so much lately, now she's out in LI)...but they have an apartment in Manhattan.
When she first moved there, it was all about the "24/7 things to do"....but it wore out after a few years.
Now it seems like everyone can't wait to get out of the city on the weekends/holidays....and then the tourists show up.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'm sure he would have a realistic perspective of what people are using for the typical gigs at clubs/venues.
I know a bunch of players locally, and they ALL use amps still....and yeah, most of them have some kind of "pod" they they've used fro stuff, but none are selling off their amps or avoiding using them at live gigs 'cuz it's too much to carry.
Sure, the days of dragging double stacks to a typical bar gig when the "roadie" was also you....have faded away, but these days there are so many great smaller amps that don't require a lot of muscle and sweat to carry....and then you just stick a mic in front or it use the line out if there is one, and feed the PA for that extra volume if needed....but at the smaller bars/clubs, it's often still just stage amps for volume.
And for me personally, I like stage volume. I like at least a cab on stage. I like to play that way, and like to see bands that way. In a huge stadium, it doesn't matter. But at a club or bar, having a cab on stage blaring sound adds to the overall experience. I've been side-stage at festivals where some bands use iso cabs and amps backstage along with in-ear monitoring. On stage is empty show cabs and props. You know what you hear from the stage? Drums. That's it. It's like an empty hole. No sound. Then you go FOH and it sounds normal. That's fine for the crowd, and ultimately that's all that matters, but that wouldn't sit well with me as a player. It would take a lot of getting used to. I'd rather have my cab behind me. And at typical small bars and clubs I don't even monitor myself half the time. Hell, I don't even need to mic'd sometimes. A 100w Marshall will fill a room with a glorious sound.
And for me personally, I like stage volume. I like at least a cab on stage. I like to play that way, and like to see bands that way. In a huge stadium, it doesn't matter. But at a club or bar, having a cab on stage blaring sound adds to the overall experience. I've been side-stage at festivals where some bands use iso cabs and amps backstage along with in-ear monitoring. On stage is empty show cabs and props. You know what you hear from the stage? Drums. That's it. It's like an empty hole. No sound. Then you go FOH and it sounds normal. That's fine for the crowd, and ultimately that's all that matters, but that wouldn't sit well with me as a player. It would take a lot of getting used to. I'd rather have my cab behind me. And at typical small bars and clubs I don't even monitor myself half the time. Hell, I don't even need to be mic'd sometimes. A 100w Marshall will fill a room with a glorious sound all by itself.
I will say though that the Fractal AxeFX stuff and Kemper profiling amps are pretty cool. They sound good. They also cost more than a typical good quality tube amp. In a best-of scenario I think something like an AxeFX run into a powered cab on stage would be cool.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
...
I understand that you probably didn't follow my link, and it was like tl;dr anyway.
I can understand to an extent the idea of a show and an image. I'm one who has to sit my signal sources...er bandmates...down for a "wardrobe discussion" before every real gig. TBH, I think the image of 3 or four guys asses to elbows on a tiny stage with huge amps is kind of absurd. In fact, I have a bit of a reputation for having a lot of "electronics" on stage, and it actually does tend to draw some people out of curiosity alone.
I completely agree about stage volume. In fact, I think a lot of the problems that people have with amp sims is one of sheer SPL. If I pull up the AC30 model and play it through headphones or even my studio monitors, it doesn't really feel like there's an AC30 in the room. It feels like a recording of an AC30 played back on headphones or studio monitors. You know what, though? My (actual, physical, analog, all-tube) AC4 doesn't really feel like an AC30 either. That is definitely not because of an deficiency in the "algorithm". It's just plain physical volume that's the difference. Plug that amp sim into a reasonably flat PA with maybe 200W and you'll get the body buzz, the Fletcher-Munsen thing, and the natural compression of the ear, and it will be very hard to say that there isn't actually an AC30 in the room. It works for that Marshall monstrosity above just as well. If you can get the sim to actually move all of the air that the stack does, you won't miss the tubes.
Personally, I have never felt the need to have my very own speaker with just me coming out of it. All that matters to me is the mix and how I fit into it. I don't have much desire to walk over to my little spot where I can hear only me and some cymbals. In Circadian Nations we used to split the monitors, but that was really more for the other guy. I didn't really mind not hearing him drone the high E on his mandolin all night, I guess...
No it wouldn't. How could it? How is a sim gonna duplicate the effect of standing in front of actual tube circuitry and 8, or hell even 4 speakers and feeling my pants flap in the breeze? It won't....unless I run it into powered cabs on stage with me, and then, what the fuck is the point? I can just use the actual head and cabs. It might fool the crowd, and that's fine, but it won't fool me, and I'm top dog numero uno with everything I do. I have to please myself, and everyone else comes afterwards. That's just me. For someone like me, a grown man with a healthy skeleton and a few muscles, hauling a head and cab is nothing. The cab rolls. It has wheels. Hell, I'm also a drummer. Lugging guitar gear is a beach vacation compared to being a gigging drummer. Some of you might be fine with settling for a reasonable fake out of sheer laziness or indifference, and that's okay, I'd rather have the real deal.