Tracking vocals

J

Jeroleen

New member
When tracking vocals, should compression be used on the original track or should it be avoided rather attempting to get the smoothest performance possible and th en employ the compressor if necessary.

Also, I don't like reverb on vocals all that much. Possibly there are ways to use the reverb that I am unaware of that might change my opinion.
 
I try never to use compression while tracking - remember, you can always compress during mixdown, but you can't remove compression that's been recorded. The best way to eliminate the need for compression while tracking is to reduce the dynamic range at the source - in other words, back the singer away from the mic (a pop filter on its own stand will help with singers who like to "eat" the mic). There are some singers who won't let you get away with this... for them I'd use a low threshold and low ratio (like -36db and 2:1) with a fast attack & medium release.

Scott
 
You can get away with tracking compression on bass guitar and maybe a bass drum but as stated before.. you can't undo it and you really shouldn't chance it with vocals. As far as reverb.. moderation. You don't need to sound like you are in a church, just a mild toucj of reverb for ambience.
 
Compression - like they said, if you have a choice do it later at mixing time, not at tracking time. I have a multitracker and for verious reasons i find it easier to use compression on my voice at tracking time, but generaly I don't think what I do is a good idea!

Reverb - there are no rules. You can't expect people to tell you what you must do with the sound of your music. If you don't like reverb then don't use it. it's your call. Personaly I always apply a little. Once you listen to the voice in the mix it's difficult to spot the reverb at all, but it's there. Try applying it and then reducing the amount until it's not niticable with the full mix. Also as an alternative to reverb experiment with delay (echo) on the voice, depending on the vocal style it can be excellent.
 
It's more likely you'll need to use compression while tracking to tape than if you're tracking to HD. I record using a Mackie MDR 24/96 HDR an add compression only at mixdown.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
 
I'll second glynb's suggestion.
Delay can often work better than reverb particularly on faster songs where reverb can smear.

If you have a delay where you can set the delay times of the channels indepedantly, try this.

Set the left channel at a small delay (27 ms) and right slightly larger (35 ms). It will give you a nice big sound.

Works great on solo acoustic guitar as well.
 
Reverb can be frustrating if you are simply selecting among different presets (e.g., room, hall, cathedral, spring, plate, etc.) I think the key is to listen carefully and alter the individial settings within each category. Small changes in predelay, decay, early reflections, etc. can make important differences. Explore these settings and you will probably come up with your own preset that matches your voice and musical style.

If you don't like reverb on everthing, you are probably in luck: the eighties are over and dry up front vocals are increasingly in vogue. But, remember the conventional wisdom (as much as I can glean it) is that the human voice sounds better with some reverb.
 
Jeroleen said:
When tracking vocals, should compression be used on the original track or should it be avoided rather attempting to get the smoothest performance possible and th en employ the compressor if necessary.

Also, I don't like reverb on vocals all that much. Possibly there are ways to use the reverb that I am unaware of that might change my opinion.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, you should usually always use compression while tracking, when recording digitally. The risk of destroying a good take is too great since the levels of digital recording don't allow much headroom for "forgiveness." I use a ratio of 3:1 to 4:1 for vocals, a threshold between 9db and 20db, (depending on the source material.), very fast to fast attack (helps tame transients on vovals) and fast release. (raises "breaths" to same relative volume as "words"- this gives more of an "in your face sound, but doesn't compress to the point where it is noticeable. I always add MORE compression after tracking. Oh yeah, I use a Joe-Meek VC6Q, for it's wonderful vocal sound.

Reverb -

Reverb serves an excellent purpose when used sparingly. I use Cubase VST32 5.1 (I would hate the learning curve of upgrading to SX)…..I use a small room preset (30-50% size). I then set a short to medium pre-delay, depending on the particular voice. Early reflection are set the same as pre-delay relatively. I then expirement with the wet/dry mix to emulate the perfect room sound, but remain up front. So in conclusion: The trick is the room size/wet dry mix. This gives my vocals NO audible reflections but makes the vocal sit with more "weight", size and "air." Try it and see.....
 
Re: Re: Tracking vocals

Neurotic said:
In my opinion, you should usually always use compression while tracking, when recording digitally. The risk of destroying a good take is too great since the levels of digital recording don't allow much headroom for "forgiveness."
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Damn right :D
 
I agree. When recording digitally, you will probably need to compress during tracking. You can back off of the mic but you seem to lose some bass response when you do so.
 
Hmmm.. most people I know (incl myself) who use compression while recording to HD do so mainly for the flavor and not out of necessity. I find there's plenty of headroom when recording with 24 bits without worrying about having to compress for fear of topping out the meters. Are you guys using 16 or 24 bits?

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
 
meriphew said:
Hmmm.. most people I know (incl myself) who use compression while recording to HD do so mainly for the flavor and not out of necessity. I find there's plenty of headroom when recording with 24 bits without worrying about having to compress for fear of topping out the meters. Are you guys using 16 or 24 bits?
www.meriphew.com
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I second this view. If you like the sound of the comp when tracking and you can nail it, fine, it's done, you don't need to do it again or later in the mix.
Not for a/d protection in 24 bit. What's the point unless you're talking about a brick-wall?

On second thought there is another view on this. It makes you commit, and learn form your mistakes and successes.
At first, I bet you re-track more takes from getting it worng than from blowing overs though.:D
 
An 1176 or LA2A are pretty standard in the vocal chain in modern recording. Mostly for their color and or limiting capability, not so much for compression.
 
Middleman said:
An 1176 or LA2A are pretty standard in the vocal chain in modern recording. Mostly for their color and or limiting capability, not so much for compression.
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That's all well and good for the seasoned pro, but I don't get the impression that the original poster is that (hence the question...). A less-than-stellar compressor, particularly in inexperienced hands, is likely to do more damage to the signal than enhancement.
Regarding compression to avoid overloading your converters - if you're recording at 24 bits and you find this to be the case, you're tracking too hot. Leave yourself some headroom.

Scott
 
I think you misinterpreted what I said.

I indicated compressors in vocal chains generally are not used to compress but for other things. I think that addresses his question quite specifically. Even a cheap compressor can be used to limit and thus not add dramatically a compressive effect.

Also, if he ever has any hope of getting a pro sound he will need to learn compression and limiting is a good place to start.
 
I don't know about you guys.....but I like to track as hot as possible......and that means I am constantly having transients that overload......compression can take care of that without having to worry how hard I am digging into my strings. I don't own a compressor so I am only able to do it when I borrow my friends, but when I track without one my noise floor goes up considerably due to boosting after all is said and done......not to mention the lose of detain I seem to have....
 
Ah, the mistakes I've made- Compression is a 2 edged sword, and one of the most dangerous tools you can have. What was said above about word length/resolution is true. If you are tracking to 16 bits, or even 20, the desire to track as hot as possible may inspire you to compress when tracking, and it may even be necessary. If you're tracking at 24 bits, peaks at -8 dB are not as bad as many people think. I used a goodly bit of optocompression on vocals on the current project, usually at 3:1, and the mixing engineer is having a devil of a time dealing with it. Oh well, live and learn.-Richie
 
Ah, the mistakes I've made- Compression is a 2 edged sword, and one of the most dangerous tools you can have. What was said above about word length/resolution is true. If you are tracking to 16 bits, or even 20, the desire to track as hot as possible may inspire you to compress when tracking, and it may even be necessary. If you're tracking at 24 bits, peaks at -8 dB are not as bad as many people think. I used a goodly bit of optocompression on vocals on the current project, usually at 3:1, and the mixing engineer is having a devil of a time dealing with it. Oh well, live and learn.-Richie
 
Ah, the mistakes I've made- Compression is a 2 edged sword, and one of the most dangerous tools you can have. What was said above about word length/resolution is true. If you are tracking to 16 bits, or even 20, the desire to track as hot as possible may inspire you to compress when tracking, and it may even be necessary. If you're tracking at 24 bits, peaks at -8 dB are not as bad as many people think. I used a goodly bit of optocompression on vocals on the current project, usually at 3:1, and the mixing engineer is having a devil of a time dealing with it. Oh well, live and learn.-Richie
 
Outlaws said:
...and that means I am constantly having transients that overload......compression can take care of that without having to worry how hard I am digging into my strings.
...but when I track without one my noise floor goes up considerably due to boosting after all is said and done......not to mention the lose of detain I seem to have....
Click to expand...

I'm curious, is this at 24 bit? I would have thought that on even on 'clean' guitar (for example) even at 16 bit, any noise after bringing the volume up would be from the signal not from from conversion. On an over-drive sound even less so.
It that what you meant?
Thanks.
Wayne
 
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