Tracking / Acoustic Treatment / Equipment Placing Prep

adam79

New member
I don't have the greatest recording room; concrete floors, dry wall and drop ceiling tiles...it's a rectangular room, the dimensions are 21 L x 15 W x 8.75 H.

I'm recording my friend's punk band in a couple weeks and trying to figure out the best spot for the drums. It's been suggested to put them at the back of the room, length wise. Should I put 'em in the middle or closer to a wall? I have no acoustical treatment; I was thinking about renting some UHAUL heavy moving blankets for sound absorbtion (they're only 5$ a piece and I'm close to broke).

There are wooden shelves that come out probably ~2.5' and ~7' high (these are estimates; i'm not there to take exact measurements). I'm thinking of placing right out infront of the shelf. Would this shelf spread around the soundwaves, or should I hang one of the blankets infront of the shelf? As far as the sides and front of the kit, should i drape blankets around the entire kit? If so, how far from the drums should I hang the blankets? or should I give the kit some room to breathe?

As for the guitar amp, I was planning on placing it in the middle of the room, somewhat close to the wall. Place two folding chairs faceing eachother with the combo amp on one chair (facing wall) and cover it with a blanket, using the other chair to hold up the blanket. I can't DI him during the performace and overdub the amp afterwards cuz he performs poorly with overdubs.

DI the bass during the petformance and then overdub a second track with it plugged into the amp.

For vocals, I was gonna put the singer at the opposite end of the drums, have him face the corner and just sing a scratch track.. then have him overdub the vox track. Should I hang a blanket or two around him or give him and the mic room to breathe?

What do you guys think of this setup? Any suggestions on switching anything up?

Thanks.
 
How many tracks can you record at one time? The room is going to be pretty 'live', so moving blankets, duvets, anything to absorb some of the room reverb will help.
 
I would put the drums in a corner with something along the walls to deaden the reflections. I never place the singer facing into the corner, I have the singers back to the corner so that the back of the mic is to the band, the back of the mic picks up less of the band so that you don't get as much in the headphones, deaden the corder behind the singer as well. Can you put the singer outside the room? In fact can you put everything outside the room except the drums for tracking?

Alan.
 
How many tracks can you record at one time? The room is going to be pretty 'live', so moving blankets, duvets, anything to absorb some of the room reverb will help.

I would put the drums in a corner with something along the walls to deaden the reflections. I never place the singer facing into the corner, I have the singers back to the corner so that the back of the mic is to the band, the back of the mic picks up less of the band so that you don't get as much in the headphones, deaden the corder behind the singer as well. Can you put the singer outside the room? In fact can you put everything outside the room except the drums for tracking?

Alan.

The corner (for the drums) was my initial thought, high hat side by the wall, right? How far from the wall? Do you agree that I put them right infront of the shelf, instead of under it? Besides a blanket on the wall, do you think I should hang one on the other side? What about the front and back of kit. Someone suggested I keep the drums infront of the shelf and to leave it open, as the sound will get caught both under and below the shelf. As far as the front of the kit, I'm not sure if I should keep it opened up or drape a blanket in front.

I can record 8 tracks simultaneously...four on my UA Apollo interface and then another 4 via my Mackie mixer preamps (with the inserts going into the Apollo's line ins). I'll have to experiment with which mics work better with the Mackie's pres; the Apollo's are FAR superior, especially with the 610 preamp plugin unison feature.

My mic locker is crap.. just a pair of MCA SP1s, 3 SM57s and a SM58. I'm planning on using the Glyn Johns drum mic technique; I've perfected the placement over the past couple weeks. I use the SP1s as OHs, SM57 on snare top and I'm gonna rent a D112 and use that and a SM57 on the reso side of the kick. That'll leave the last SM57 for the guitar amp. How far should I keep the amp from the wall?

This is a rehersal space, so I can't place anything outside the room. The guitar amp and vocals will be the only other noise that could cause bleed. Good call on having the singer not facing the corner, so the back of the SM58 is facing the band. If the singer causes too much bleed live (I'll put a blanket infront of him), he'll just have to sing soft, as a scratch track, to keep the song moving (the other musicians need his vocals to get thru the tunes). Plus, I wanna have his main vocal going into the SP1. It'll be ideal if he can sing at his normal level and then overdub with the SP1 as a double.

I'm gonna have the guitarist attempt to overdub a doubling track, eventhough he isn't good at doing that type of thing. For the overdub, shoukd I take the blanket off, leave the amp on the chair (micing it with a 57 and SP1) and repositioning thr amp? Maybe in the middle of the room, at the far end or somewhere else? Or will it alter it's sound too much by removing the amp from the blanket setup?
Where would the best spot for the bass cab overdub? Should I fold up the blankets and put them in the corners to mimic bass traps? If yes, I should have one or two blankets left. Where would be the best spot(s) to hang those?

If there is any bleed, I'll be downloading the Fabfilter Pro-G and UA Dynamite gate demos. Does anyone know if the Pro-G is a full function demo? I know the UA Dynamite is.

Any other suggestions? Thanks.
 
The corner (for the drums) was my initial thought, high hat side by the wall, right? How far from the wall? Do you agree that I put them right infront of the shelf, instead of under it? Besides a blanket on the wall, do you think I should hang one on the other side? What about the front and back of kit. Someone suggested I keep the drums infront of the shelf and to leave it open, as the sound will get caught both under and below the shelf. As far as the front of the kit, I'm not sure if I should keep it opened up or drape a blanket in front. My mic locker is crap.. just a pair of MCA SP1s, 3 SM57s and a SM58. I'm planning on using the Glyn Johns drum mic technique; I've perfected the placement over the past couple weeks. I use the SP1s as OHs, SM57 on snare top and I'm gonna rent a D112 and use that and a SM57 on the reso side of the kick.

I would put the drums across the corner with the drummer sitting in the corner kind off set up, Sound check the kit tight in the corner or out a bit and see what works best. With a noisy guitar in the room the Glyn Johns won't be that good, it al;so relies on a good sounding room. Close mic the kit with the SM57's use the MCA SP1's as over heads. D112 front of kick.

That'll leave the last SM57 for the guitar amp. How far should I keep the amp from the wall?

Use the SM58 on the guitar amp maybe, have the amp just far enough from the wall so the bass is not falsely boosted.

If there is any bleed, I'll be downloading the Fabfilter Pro-G and UA Dynamite gate demos. Does anyone know if the Pro-G is a full function demo? I know the UA Dynamite is .

Gates do not work well in this situation, you need to control spill at the recording stage. Why not record the drums with the guitar playing a guide through a DI into some headphones? Can you track without the vocals at all? Have the vocalist giving verse / chorus guide signals in the room? The DI guitar can be reamped or re-tackled later.

Alan.
 
I would put the drums across the corner with the drummer sitting in the corner kind off set up, Sound check the kit tight in the corner or out a bit and see what works best. With a noisy guitar in the room the Glyn Johns won't be that good, it al;so relies on a good sounding room. Close mic the kit with the SM57's use the MCA SP1's as over heads. D112 front of kick.



Use the SM58 on the guitar amp maybe, have the amp just far enough from the wall so the bass is not falsely boosted.



Gates do not work well in this situation, you need to control spill at the recording stage. Why not record the drums with the guitar playing a guide through a DI into some headphones? Can you track without the vocals at all? Have the vocalist giving verse / chorus guide signals in the room? The DI guitar can be reamped or re-tackled later.

Alan.

So instead of putting one OH on top in the middle if kit and one by the floor tom (Glyn Johns), have both OH on top, split left and right or in an XY pattern? Guess I can try both the night before n see what sounds better.
You think there will still be too much amp bleed with that double folding chair under the blanket method?
Like I was saying, the guitarist sucks at overdubs, so if I DI him, it'll most likely be the only useable guitar track. Plus, these dude's are punk purists...it was hard enough to convice the bassist to go DI live n overdub the amp aftetwards; same with the singer.
Is there a gate plugin you could recommend that works well on drums during tracking, and that has a fully functional demo? How's the Dynamite with this method? or is that also more of a post tracking gate? I'll prob need one for close micing. plus i dont have much experiencing micing the drums that way.
I might have enough cash to rent one more mic, like a md421 for the floor and a 57 on the high tom; i think the drummer just uses the floor and one high.
 
You will not be happy trying to gate room bleed out of drum mics, for example how do you gate overheads? You can't as all the drums and cymbals are picked up by them so that the gate will be open all the time, and when the gate is open you hear the spill. Forget gates.

Mic the kit left / right overheads, closer to the cymbals then maybe you would usually and make sure that you can hear the high hat as there is no hi hat mic mentioned. Snare, Toms, kick close miced. Check the phase between the overheads and the close mics. A 421 on the floor tom would be good, and the less drums the better sensible drummer.

Being a little up front! If the guitarist sucks at over dubs than maybe he is not ready to record yet and needs to go away and practice. If you track a DI guitar track you should be able to re amp it later if need be, or the only option is to screen off the amp as best you can to minimise spill.

Remember if you are using al the tracks that spilled, as long as it is minimal it won't matter too much.

Alan.
 
You will not be happy trying to gate room bleed out of drum mics, for example how do you gate overheads? You can't as all the drums and cymbals are picked up by them so that the gate will be open all the time, and when the gate is open you hear the spill. Forget gates.

Mic the kit left / right overheads, closer to the cymbals then maybe you would usually and make sure that you can hear the high hat as there is no hi hat mic mentioned. Snare, Toms, kick close miced. Check the phase between the overheads and the close mics. A 421 on the floor tom would be good, and the less drums the better sensible drummer.

Being a little up front! If the guitarist sucks at over dubs than maybe he is not ready to record yet and needs to go away and practice. If you track a DI guitar track you should be able to re amp it later if need be, or the only option is to screen off the amp as best you can to minimise spill.

Remember if you are using al the tracks that spilled, as long as it is minimal it won't matter too much.

Alan.

like I said, they're a punk band. i prob want the recording to come out good more than they do. let alone having the kid go practice more. pff.
I get what u mean now by the reamp.. run the DI track thru the amp, right? I'm gonna try that on my own first and check out the bleed into the drum mics.. while the amp's under the blanket.
If there's a phase issue on the OH's I just have to reverse the phase on one of the tracks to fix it, right? what if there are more phase issues that just the OH's?
If I have to put the kick mic infront of the beater I need to rethink the rental; I hate the 112 close mic's. hows the beta52 by the beater? thats the same price as the 112. or i could try putting a blanket over the mics by the reso head.
and what about the blankets around the kit when close mic'd? both sides and front?

thanks for the help.
 
If there's a phase issue on the OH's I just have to reverse the phase on one of the tracks to fix it, right? what if there are more phase issues that just the OH's?
If I have to put the kick mic infront of the beater I need to rethink the rental; I hate the 112 close mic's. hows the beta52 by the beater? thats the same price as the 112. or i could try putting a blanket over the mics by the reso head.
and what about the blankets around the kit when close mic'd? both sides and front?

thanks for the help.

The phase statement you make is kind of right, do a little reading about recording drums.

Why are you micing the beater side? Mic from the front, if the front skin has a hole in it put the mic inside a bit, or a lot depending on the sound you are after. I use a D112 all the time and they are fine for kick, if they don't sound any good it's usually the actual kick drum or tuning. I know that different people have the favourite kick mic, but they all can get a good kick sound. You could even use the 421 on kick if you want and use the D112 on the floor tom?

I usually build a blanket tunnel in front of the kick drum to cut spill from the room, not unusual. Also keeps the rest of the kit out of the kick mic.

The blankets around the kit depend on the room and the sound wanted, if the room is very live I would but some heavy blankets around the sider to reduce the splash, you need to do some sound checking.

Alan.
 
The phase statement you make is kind of right, do a little reading about recording drums.

Why are you micing the beater side? Mic from the front, if the front skin has a hole in it put the mic inside a bit, or a lot depending on the sound you are after. I use a D112 all the time and they are fine for kick, if they don't sound any good it's usually the actual kick drum or tuning. I know that different people have the favourite kick mic, but they all can get a good kick sound. You could even use the 421 on kick if you want and use the D112 on the floor tom?

I usually build a blanket tunnel in front of the kick drum to cut spill from the room, not unusual. Also keeps the rest of the kit out of the kick mic.

The blankets around the kit depend on the room and the sound wanted, if the room is very live I would but some heavy blankets around the sider to reduce the splash, you need to do some sound checking.

Alan.

by the beater on the inside of the shell that is. ill definitely be experimenting; plan on renting mics and blankets the afternoon before. also, i dont have a hole on the reso.
as far as isolating the kick, making a tunnel out of a second kick shell works awesome, but i only have the one bass drum.
i'll look up some youtube vids on close mic drums techniques.
 
by the beater on the inside of the shell that is. ill definitely be experimenting; plan on renting mics and blankets the afternoon before. also, i dont have a hole on the reso.
as far as isolating the kick, making a tunnel out of a second kick shell works awesome, but i only have the one bass drum.
i'll look up some youtube vids on close mic drums techniques.

Make a tunnel out of some blankets and a chair or 2. You could take off the front skin? I have done that in the past with great results.

Alan.
 
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