Terminology Confusion

K

Krista@FuZion

New member
Hi there,

I'm new around here, and have been reading through several different threads about recording interfaces. I work with my husband who runs a video production company, and lately we've had several inquiries about audio recording for various CDs. We've been able to make the equipment we have work thus far (Zoom h4n, and some jerry rigging), but now are needing to upgrade in order to keep up. I need a means to record up to 10 to 12 individual tracks, and I'd need to record those tracks straight into ProTools (or perhaps Audition).

Now, I have lots and lots of experience running live shows, but not building (from the ground up) a recording set-up. As I'm looking at so many different interfaces and mixers, MANY of them like to tout "USB connectivity"! But I'm finding that just because it has a USB connection does not mean that it will export the tracks individually. This notion of multi-input recording is basically required for what we're trying to do.

Is there any way to distinguish between all of the "bus routing" and ADAT blah blah blah ect to get a straight answer? Do I need to become more familiar with those terms?

As best I can see, the TASCAM US-1800 (which seems to be a favorite around here) will do what I need. Can anyone confirm that? How about new big brother TASCAM US-16x08 (which seems like it will have better pre amps)?

Can anyone clear up my deep confusion? Can anyone recommend a decent (medium low budget) multi-input recording interface or mixer?
 
The Tascams will do what you need as will other similar interfaces.

With interfaces you can generally assume that the number of inputs is the number of tracks at a time it can pass to the software for recording. With mixer/interfaces you have to check the specs as many were made just to record a live mix.

There are many ways to get this done, as far as equipment. My preference it a big analog board as a front end, acting as my preamps and monitor mix router, connected to an interface at line level. Being all analog there is no latency, and I have eq, effects and lots of outputs.

The US-16x08 appears to have full featured low latency DSP that will pretty much do what a big hardware mixer will do, but with a little latency. The US-1800 has more basic monitoring options, but it's true zero latency.

Some people like to use a rack of boutique mic preamps connected to the interface at line level.

ADAT is a digital connection. It's mostly for expanding the number of inputs on an interface using additional hardware. It works, but an interface with enough built in analog inputs is probably more convenient. You can squeeze by with 8 inputs, but 16 gives you a lot more flexibility.
 
Why don't you just record straight into PTs and bypass the Tascam completely? Maybe I'm missing something but it seems as if you're taking the long way around the barn so-to-speak. :guitar:
 
Krista@FuZion said:
Is there any way to distinguish between all of the "bus routing" and ADAT blah blah blah ect to get a straight answer? Do I need to become more familiar with those terms?
Click to expand...

I don't understand half those terms either!

Krista@FuZion said:
As best I can see, the TASCAM US-1800 (which seems to be a favorite around here) will do what I need. Can anyone confirm that? How about new big brother TASCAM US-16x08 (which seems like it will have better pre amps)?
Click to expand...


Something along the lines of the Tascam is what you need to get multiple inputs recorded at once. The critical question is 'how many inputs at one time do you want?' That will determine the type of interface you need to get.

You can get digital mixers that will also provide multi-track recording (e.g. Presonus StudioLive), HOwever yo need to be careful with mixers that talk about 'USB connectivity'. OFten this means that although they may have many input channels on the mixer, they will only provide a stereo output to computer via USB, the digital equivalent of 'tape out'.

Protools will do the job. You may like to consider alternatives, e.g. Reaper (which I use and unashamedly promote). It's cheap, powerful and versatile.
 
XploZiveToyz said:
Why don't you just record straight into PTs and bypass the Tascam completely? Maybe I'm missing something but it seems as if you're taking the long way around the barn so-to-speak. :guitar:
Click to expand...

Er, how will the OP get his signals into ProTools (or whatever DAW) without going through some sort of interface. The Tascams mentioned are fairly cost effective ways to do this.

One caution on any interface spec though...read the fine print. Many will claim "16 inputs" but only some can be microphones; others have to be line level, ADAT, AES digital or whatever. I guess the answer to your first question is that, yes, you do need to learn some of this terminology or at least work out in your mind exactly what you need to record and then ask in here if a certain box is suitable.

gecko zzed said:
I don't understand half those terms either!
Click to expand...

I suspect gecko is joking, but...

...bus routing is the ability to group some of the channels on a mixer onto one or more combined channels. For example, for live work I'll put all my drum mics onto one bus so I can use the individual faders to balance the drum sound, then the bus fader to control how loud the overall drums are in the mix. Beware of mention of buses when talking about mixer outputs to USB. It usually means you can't feed individual tracks.

ADAT, as was said, is a digital format that can carry up to 8 tracks at once, usually on a fibre optic link. For it to be any use, you need a box that takes your audio and converts it to ADAT. I actually use this but have a specialist mixer that can output up to 32 channels in this format.

Something along the lines of the Tascam is what you need to get multiple inputs recorded at once. The critical question is 'how many inputs at one time do you want?' That will determine the type of interface you need to get.

You can get digital mixers that will also provide multi-track recording (e.g. Presonus StudioLive), HOwever yo need to be careful with mixers that talk about 'USB connectivity'. OFten this means that although they may have many input channels on the mixer, they will only provide a stereo output to computer via USB, the digital equivalent of 'tape out'.

Protools will do the job. You may like to consider alternatives, e.g. Reaper (which I use and unashamedly promote). It's cheap, powerful and versatile.
Click to expand...

I used to use Protools professionally when I worked in the TV industry...and, despite training and years of using it never came to like it. However, since video production is mentioned, you may want PT because of the way it interfaces with Avid (if that's what you use). Assuming we're talking some degree of audio for video here, then your video editing needs to be considered. FYI, I personally use Premiere Pro CC for my video and Audition CC for audio because the two talk to each other. The round trip isn't perfect but it works for me.

If having something where your audio and video software work together ISN'T part of the spec, then I can second the recommendation of Reaper as a very capable, cost effective system. However, my usual advice is to download the trial versions of you short list and see which interface works for you.
 
Hi Krista,
you say you have a lot of live sound experience. Do you therefore have a gash 16 input mixer about the place? If so and it has direct outs or even just channel inserts you might consider the A&H IC 16, a rack of converters that can record to a hard drive or act as an AI via USB or Firewire.

Yes, it is $1000 but you did say "production company" and excellent tho' the US1800 is for project studios I would guess you really need a more professional setup?

As for the jargon and specifications, yes you just have to learn them I fear. But "they" tell porkies! Especially about real, useful track counts so always check in here before waggling flexible friend!

Dave.
 
As others have said, just to restate: how many mic preamps do you need? "10-12 inputs" doesn't tell us this, because some of these could be DI's for instruments (or even MIDI?)
 
You may even ask yourself, so you really want to go down the road of doing true audio mixing. 8-16 inputs means a true audio mix. That becomes a full load right there, then there is the video. Unless you are ready to go down that audio road, you may want to see how good you can get the audio with a house mixer and just two channel recording. It is a slippery slope.
 
Reaper is reportedly working on advancing its video capabilities by several strides in the upcoming version. Don't tell anybody I told you, though. ;)

The Tascams will probably work fine. I feel like my 1641 is a little noisier than it could be, but nobody else complains...

Does anybody make a simple ADAT > USB interface? I use a standalone HDR for my interface, and it'll send (and receive) all 24 tracks via 3 x ADAT. I have an old Steinberg PCI card that gets 16 of those into Reaper (and currently 8 out), but they don't put PCI slots in computers anymore, so when I get ready to upgrade...
 
"but they don't put PCI slots in computers anymore,"

Oh! They do but you probably have to build your own.

Dave.
 
Roland's Studio Capture gets some pretty nice nods around the web and comes with 12 nice pres. Still a grand, but it's a step off the bottom and has the features you need. 192/24, 16x10 operation so you can run some externals (really only 12x8 unless you've got a S/PDIF unit to hook up), rack mountable and zero latency with DSP for your tracking needs...
 
This has all been SO helpful! I’m so glad I found this sites FB page and they directed me here. In reply to a few questions, I’d prefer at least 10 XLR inputs (with pre amp). Most of what we’ll be recording is vocal (both singing and speech), piano, and classical style instruments. I’d also like to utilize my Shure sm7b more often and that thing likes a good pre amp.

I do have live sound experience, but don’t have consistent access to that equipment anymore. Yes we are a production company, but we can’t dedicate a ton of funds toward it yet, so budget is a buzz word. While yes, eventually I’d like to expand into a true, full studio.

To give you an idea of why I came here in the first place is the potential contract with a 9 man accapella group who are very particular about their sound. I am definitely not a good enough live mixer to properly mix 9 men’s voices to just have it exported down to a stereo output. I could handle a quartet decently well, but even them I’d prefer to be able to tweak it later. And since we’re expanding our company anyways, this seems a logical next step...

Yall have already been super helpful...
 
Well, short of the Roland @ $1000 that I mentioned, there are not a lot of over 8 preamp units out there. Alternate would be to daisy chain two 8's with ADAT, i.e. 2 Behringer UMC1820s could be daisy chained via ADAT cable to give you 16 pres @ $400. Might be a few headaches involved...I've never done this. Maybe PM Jimmy69 as he uses a pair of 8's via ADAT, albeit they're UR824s (which would run about $1600).
 
"
I do have live sound experience, but don’t have consistent access to that equipment anymore. Yes we are a production company, but we can’t dedicate a ton of funds toward it yet, so budget is a buzz word. While yes, eventually I’d like to expand into a true, full studio. "

O...kay! Then the US 1800 is probably the best bet. The pre amps are quite good I understand but maybe not quite up to an SM57b depending on application? However the 1800 has more line level inputs and so a preamp could be used to get two more mics in. One pre amp that would serve very well IMHO if funds permit is the Audient Mico. This has excellent on board converters and outputs S/PDIF and thus could feed the 1800 freeing up all the line inputs.
The Mico would be a keeper when you did the upgrade!

Another option for the SM7 would be the Fethead or Cloudlifter in line pre amp but since they require phantom power they would use up a mic channel.

Dave.
 
Bobbsy said:
Er, how will the OP get his signals into ProTools (or whatever DAW) without going through some sort of interface. The Tascams mentioned are fairly cost effective ways to do this.

One caution on any interface spec though...read the fine print. Many will claim "16 inputs" but only some can be microphones; others have to be line level, ADAT, AES digital or whatever. I guess the answer to your first question is that, yes, you do need to learn some of this terminology or at least work out in your mind exactly what you need to record and then ask in here if a certain box is suitable.



I suspect gecko is joking, but...

...bus routing is the ability to group some of the channels on a mixer onto one or more combined channels. For example, for live work I'll put all my drum mics onto one bus so I can use the individual faders to balance the drum sound, then the bus fader to control how loud the overall drums are in the mix. Beware of mention of buses when talking about mixer outputs to USB. It usually means you can't feed individual tracks.

ADAT, as was said, is a digital format that can carry up to 8 tracks at once, usually on a fibre optic link. For it to be any use, you need a box that takes your audio and converts it to ADAT. I actually use this but have a specialist mixer that can output up to 32 channels in this format.



I used to use Protools professionally when I worked in the TV industry...and, despite training and years of using it never came to like it. However, since video production is mentioned, you may want PT because of the way it interfaces with Avid (if that's what you use). Assuming we're talking some degree of audio for video here, then your video editing needs to be considered. FYI, I personally use Premiere Pro CC for my video and Audition CC for audio because the two talk to each other. The round trip isn't perfect but it works for me.

If having something where your audio and video software work together ISN'T part of the spec, then I can second the recommendation of Reaper as a very capable, cost effective system. However, my usual advice is to download the trial versions of you short list and see which interface works for you.
Click to expand...

I assumed the OP knew what an interface is.
 
Now, THIS just came across my desk. Might be worth a look for $800. 100mm faders, 24x22 USB interface, 16 Ghost preamps...take a look.
 
BroKen_H said:
Now, THIS just came across my desk. Might be worth a look for $800. 100mm faders, 24x22 USB interface, 16 Ghost preamps...take a look.
Click to expand...

If that's anything like any other cheaper analogue mixer I've worked on, it could be fine.
I personally would just use a DAW with a interface. Digital is endless potential and weighs nothing, analogue is heavy and has endless limits. Unless you can hunker down and set up big, I don't see the benefit of a big mixer like this, honestly.
 
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