Suggestions for Beginners

M

matheje

New member
Ok, here's the scoop. I play guitar and I'm ok, but I do have a decent level of creativity, writing ability. My son plays guitar, keys, drums...he is only 15, not playing very long.

We'd both like to mess around with recording some of our own stuff, much of it would be 2 acoustics with vocals, but some would be drums, electric guitar, bass, etc.

So we went to Guitar Center just to ask some quesitons and we were directed to the ProTools products. The rep explained how versatile it was, how we could mic everything, the toms, the snare, the bass drum, etc. and have so much control over our final product.

My thought is this...being as green as we are, do we NEED this type of product? Would we even get 30% of the system's capability out of it. Do I need to spend $1500+ to get decent quality recordings (and that excludes mics, monitors, etc.)?

I was looking initially to stay under $1k...anyone have any suggestions on what to look into?
 
You absolutely do NOT have to spend $1500+ to get decent quality recordings. Sounds like the guy was being a typical Guitar Center sales rep.

Are you a Mac or PC guy? Have you done any recording before? Basically, you have two paths... get a stand alone recorder , or get a audio interface for your computer. Both have many many solid options that are less than $1k. Either one will allow you to start laying down tracks. Then, as you said, you'll need mics, monitors, etc...
 
My obligatory standard reply-for-newbies that I keep in Wordpad:

First off, immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...ce&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)
You can also pick up this book in most any Borders or Barnes&Noble in the Music Books section!

Another good one is: Recording Guitar and Bass by Huw Price
http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Gui...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215734124&sr=1-1
(I got my copy at a place called Half-Price Books for $6!!)

Barnes&Noble or Borders are great places to start --- they have recording books and you can go get a snack or coffee and read them for FREE! Don't pass by a good recording book --- this is a VERY technical hobby and you REALLY want to start a reference library!!!

Good Newbie guides that also explains all the basics:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs

21 Ways To Assemble a Recording Rig:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm

Also Good Info:
http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

Other recording books:
http://musicbooksplus.com/home-recording-c-31.html

Still using a built-in soundcard?? Unfortunately, those are made with less than $1 worth of chips for beeps, boops and light gaming (not to mention cheapness for the manufacturer) not quality music production.
#1 Rule of Recording: You MUST replace the built-in soundcard.
Here's a good guide and suggestions:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_for_the_home_studio.htm


Plenty of software around to record for FREE to start out on:

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net (multi-track with VST support)
Wavosaur: http://www.wavosaur.com/ (a stereo audio file editor with VST support)\
Kristal: http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/
Other freebies and shareware: www.hitsquad.com

Another great option is REAPER at http://www.cockos.com/reaper/ (It's $40 but runs for free until you get guilty enough to pay for it...) I use Reaper and highly reccomend it....

Music Notation and MIDI recording: Melody Assistant ($20) and Harmony Assistant ($80) have the power of $600 notation packages - http://myriad-online.com
Demo you can try on the website.

And you can go out to any Barnes&Noble or Borders and pick up "Computer Music" magazine - they have a full FREE studio suite in every issue's DVD, including sequencers, plugins and tons of audio samples. (November 2006 they gave away a full copy of SamplitudeV8SE worth $150, November 2007-on the racks Dec in the US- they gave away SamplitudeV9SE. It pays to watch 'em for giveaways...)
 
You could do everything you aspire to do on a 4-track cassette machine like the Tascam 414. If cassette multitracking isn't your thing, consider an 8-track digital unit like the Fostex MR-8. These units are really simple and great for someone who is new to recording. The MR-8 comes with 4 microphone preamps, so all you need in addition to the unit are headphones, microphones and microphone stands.

Not that I'm pushing the MR-8 in particular, there are plenty of other standalone multitrackers worth checking out.
 
avieth said:
You could do everything you aspire to do on a 4-track cassette machine like the Tascam 414. If cassette multitracking isn't your thing, consider an 8-track digital unit like the Fostex MR-8. These units are really simple and great for someone who is new to recording. The MR-8 comes with 4 microphone preamps, so all you need in addition to the unit are headphones, microphones and microphone stands.

Not that I'm pushing the MR-8 in particular, there are plenty of other standalone multitrackers worth checking out.
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, I highly suggest NOT going this route.
 
I'll take a contrary position as far as price goes. If you want to record more than two channels at once, unless you take the time to buy all used gear - and even then - it's not easy to do so for much cheaper than the $1500 price you mention.

If you go with your computer to record, you'll need an interface. Generally speaking, if you want to record more than 2 channels of microphone at once, you'll be spending ~$500 right there, 1/3rd of your budget. It usually comes with the software in the form of CubaseSE or something like that which is just fine.

Let's say you want three mics for your drums, and two for vocals. You can re-use some of these to overdub your acoustic guitars and mic the electric guitar amp, to save money. That's five microphones, another ~$500 *minimum*for the five (quite a bit more more if you want more than a few SM57s and a couple of cheap condensers).

Then add five mic stands and 5 XLR mic cables and you've got another couple of hundred bucks at least. Add local sales tax or shipping from the Internet. Add it all together and you're not far from $1500 already. And that's assuming you are going to use just your current computer speakers to do your mixing and that you don't need or plan to buy any actual studio monitors - a few hundred bucks minimum to be worthwhile. Even a pair of worthwhile headphones would add another $100 bucks to the mix.

Even with small cassette Portastudio, you would only shave a couple hundred bucks off of that total.

Now, if you're willing to start with just being able to record two channels at a time, you can signifigantly decrease the price: Two-channel interface w/software, $150-$200. Two microphones, $200-300 bucks. Two mic stands and cables, ~$100-$150. Total price $450 - $650.

G.
 
NL5 said:
Whatever you do, I highly suggest NOT going this route.
Click to expand...

You do know that you might have to tell everyone why you would suggest not going that route, if you want anyone to actually listen to you...

I am suprised no one suggested a used Digi001. 8 channels, all can be used simutaniously, two channels have phantom power (as I recall), comes with ProTools LE, and can be had for under $200...
 
stevieb said:
You do know that you might have to tell everyone why you would suggest not going that route, if you want anyone to actually listen to you...
Click to expand...

Well, this has been answered a BILLION times, but here goes.

1) They all sound like ass.

2) You can't upgrade them.

3) They have a limited amount of "plugin's"

4) Expansion is next to impossible.

5) Every thing you do in recording and.or mixing is more difficult.

6) If you already have a mediocre PC, getting an interface, using reaper, and downloading the plethora of decent free plugins will be CHEAPER.

7) Did I mention they sound like ass.

8) If you get even remotely good results, you will suffer an immediate affliction of GAS, which will make you chuck the thing in the street and do what most people in this thread have suggested anyway.



The only reason for the "all-in-one" standalone jobbies I can see would be if you didn't have a computer, and were just using it to get ideas down, or crude demo's. Now, i am sure there are a few people that will chime in about how George Massenburg could make a better mix on a Boss 8 track, than I could ever make on my gear, and they may be right. However, why limit yourself, and make the job harder and MORE EXPENSIVE!



Finally, don't listen to me, what the heck do I know...........

stevieb said:
I am suprised no one suggested a used Digi001. 8 channels, all can be used simutaniously, two channels have phantom power (as I recall), comes with ProTools LE, and can be had for under $200...
Click to expand...

There are good reasons why no one has suggested this route either, but you'll have to use the search function.......
 
if you have a computer you can download software for free easily, something like audacity
free and easy to use with decent quality
if you have a mac use garage band
if not protools might be a worthy investment and if you get the pro kit youll get and interface and be ready to record right away
if you want to go balls out buy a $400 firepod which will allow you to plug in 8 inputs and manipulate each one individually on your computer with whatever software you use
good luck!
 
matheje said:
"....My thought is this...being as green as we are, do we NEED this type of product? Would we even get 30% of the system's capability out of it. Do I need to spend $1500+ to get decent quality recordings (and that excludes mics, monitors, etc.)?
Click to expand...

No. You will need about triple that amount of $$.
 
NL5 said:
So he should spend more on an inferior product? :confused:
Click to expand...

Inferior by your definition. For someone just starting out, who's not overly serious about what they're doing, there's nothing like a piece of crap digital multitrack recorder. They're easy as hell and portable. And you don't have to sit around and stare at a computer screen. You just make music wherever you happen to be. Nothing better to learn on and get started out with.

Let the dorks like us worry about how many plugins we get, and whether or not our converters are pristine enough. :D
 
I have gotten some ok results from my mr-8. Granted it has it's limitations, but recording a basic mix it does fine. Shit bruce springsteen recored nibraska on a 4-track portastudio.
 
matheje said:
Ok, here's the scoop. I play guitar and I'm ok, but I do have a decent level of creativity, writing ability. My son plays guitar, keys, drums...he is only 15, not playing very long.

We'd both like to mess around with recording some of our own stuff, much of it would be 2 acoustics with vocals, but some would be drums, electric guitar, bass, etc.

So we went to Guitar Center just to ask some quesitons and we were directed to the ProTools products. The rep explained how versatile it was, how we could mic everything, the toms, the snare, the bass drum, etc. and have so much control over our final product.

My thought is this...being as green as we are, do we NEED this type of product? Would we even get 30% of the system's capability out of it. Do I need to spend $1500+ to get decent quality recordings (and that excludes mics, monitors, etc.)?

I was looking initially to stay under $1k...anyone have any suggestions on what to look into?
Click to expand...


I'm in much the same position as you and after a lot of research I have more or less decided on a TASCAM DP-02, two large diaphragm condenser mics with stands, 2 x monitor speakers, couple of Anti-Pops. The whole thing = just under £500 (around $1000).

-Mike
 
If your not looking for "pro" recordings you can easily get by with under $1k.

If you have a good pc already, I would suggest getting an interface.
A Presonus Firepod (now called Presonus 10x10) can be had for $400 at www.musiciansfriend.com
Click the link that says "recording" and then click "audio interfaces". Anyone of those will work for you. Take a look at all of them and read the reviews.
If you have a drum loop software like Beatcraft, Fruity Loops, Eazy Drummer etc. you dont necesarly need 8 mic inputs, but could get away with 4.
Firewire interfaces are best, followed by USB 2.0, and then USB (usually not worht it).
Cheap but decent mics can be had from Naiant, MXL, and CAD makes a nice 7 piece mic set for micing drums (all 7 for $150). For micing an electric guitar you can invest in a Shure SM57 and stick it in front of the amp. For acoustic guitars the MXL 603s are nice, as well as the Naiant mics.
As far as software goes, google reaper. Do NOT feel like you have to spend a lotta money on ProTools. Reaper has the same features.


Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top