Snare ABC

B

Borodog

New member
Hi guys! This is my first post. Be gentle. ;O)

I've been doing some ABCing of some snare mics and I thought it might be fun to share. The snare was triple miked, all capsules at the same angle, elevation, distance from the center of the snare side by side, almost touching. Mics are all placed under the hi-hat for rejections. What you're going to hear is a sample of my crappy playing, recorded on all three mics, in no particular order. The samples have been volume matched. All went into the same pre-amps (TASCAM US-16x08). No processing has been done other than a high pass at 100 Hz. No compression or other EQ.

In no particular order the mics are:

Shure SM57 ($100 street price, new)
GLS Audio ES-57 ($around $20 new I think; this is a 57 clone)
CAD SN210 (got it as part of a 7 piece CAD Pro drum kit which usually retails for $199 I believe; I got my kit from the Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the Day for $99 for all 7 mics)

Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to guess which is which, and tell me which you prefer and why (of course, you might like different ones for different applications).

https://soundcloud.com/borodog/snare-abc

Thanks for playing along. I'll post the answers after getting some guesses.

PS: Soundcloud converts to 128 kb/s, which sucks, so you can download to listen in 32bit wav glory.
 
Welcome to HR. :)

Borodog said:
...tell me which you prefer...
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Ahh...none.

They all sound kind of dull/flat...maybe it's the snare, maybe the way it was recorded...plus, listening to just the snare, out of context with the rest of the kit or any music...it's really a poor way to judge on which sounds best.
 
Well that's a fair enough opinion. How about opining on the differences you hear? You know, given that they're all dull and flat.
 
Your sound clip is on the low volume side, and the way the snare was played it's very "light"...like you would for a Jazz piece (and that's fine, I got nothing against Jazz)...so there's no punch to the hits to help reveal the tone of the snare and the mic differences.

That said...the first one sounds like it has the most body...with the other two progressive lighter...but again, the level of the clip and the playing is light...so not enough there to make a good judgement.
That's what I mean by all three being kind dull and flat.

Can you do another comparison...but play them with some punch, I mean, really hit the damn thing... :D ...and do something different instead of that shuffle/roll thing, so that the tone/resonance really stands out, and then the difference of the mics will also stand out.
 
1st one has the most body, and sharpest hat tic' bleed. Otherwise eh, I guess it shows placement would swamp the differences between similar mics-- by a long shot >)
 
mixsit said:
1st one has the most body, and sharpest hat tic' bleed. Otherwise eh, I guess it shows placement would swamp the differences between similar mics-- by a long shot >)
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This. ^^^^

I don't think there are many instances where mic placement matters more than on a snare drum. There's very, very little wiggle room between something perfect and something that's absolute shit.
 
Appreciate the comments!

First, I don't believe that mic placement is playing any roll at all. I know this because I tested it. :O) Here's 2 shots of one of the mic placements (again, in no particular order relative to the samples):

IMG_6512.jpg


IMG_6513.jpg


The capsule centers are a little over a diameter apart. Basically as close as I could get without touching. The capsules are about 7 inches below the bottom hat. I could have gotten a higher angle of incidence on the snare head, which would have rejected more hat, but not much, and I feel like pointing at a spot halfway from rim to center of snare usually gives me a nice ballance between attack and development of the full sound of the drum. But I'm not a pro, so what do I know? There are probably people here who have recorded more snares yesterday than I have in my whole life.
 
Borodog said:
I don't believe that mic placement is playing any roll at all.
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There is at least a 2" position difference between the two outside mics. Sometimes a 1/4" makes a difference.
You could try each mic in the exact same spot.

At any rate, I would rather hear a clip with the snare being played with a little more authority...a solid, punchy Rock beat...so that the snare's tone comes out more.
 
miroslav said:
There is at least a 2" position difference between the two outside mics. Sometimes a 1/4" makes a difference.
You could try each mic in the exact same spot.

At any rate, I would rather hear a clip with the snare being played with a little more authority...a solid, punchy Rock beat...so that the snare's tone comes out more.
Click to expand...

All of this x 10000000.
 
I agree with the concept of actually play something. Come on, rock out that snare!

As to mics, they would have to be placed in the exact same spots. With the same preamp, settings etc.
However if one mic is putting out more level, then it might be favored by the listener just because of the loudness sounding 'better'

But overall, I don't get the point of this excersise. Is it just to get us to guess??? Seems silly to me.
 
RFR said:
But overall, I don't get the point of this excersise. Is it just to get us to guess??? Seems silly to me.
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I think he's going to try and show that the cheapest mic was his pick as best sounding...I mean, I'm not sure what else is the purpose of this thread....that;'s why the prices were included.
AFA people guessing which is which...that would only make sense if we were familiar with all three mics...otherwise, it's like pulling slots at the casino.
The only mic of the three that I'm familiar with is the 57...the other two are just names of brand/model.
 
Borodog said:
Appreciate the comments!

First, I don't believe that mic placement is playing any roll at all. I know this because I tested it. :O) Here's 2 shots of one of the mic placements (again, in no particular order relative to the samples):
.
Click to expand...
I think you missed the point, of my comment at least. The mics -as the test shows, have very similar sounds. They were placed carefully and successfully minimized differences that would be caused or attributed to placement differences. A further verification they're very similar - at least in this application' / example.
So, yeah, 'placement isn't playing any roll at all' (or close enough.
What's left?
What's left is here are three mics, pretty damn similar (in this 'place),
But if you do move -any or all of them, there lies this huge range of tones to be had on the snare.
Placement = huge differences. This is universal - almost every time.
Mics equaled in this case - small differences.

Perhaps a more telling test would be each in front a full kit, with someone signing and playing acoustic guitar where that would be picked up say mostly from IDK, 90 or 150 degrees off axis?
Or better yet, one just 'kit - on axis example- w/ less 'off axis distraction, one with both.

They say one of the reasons you can't really 'eq to match the tone character of two different mics is - you can't 'correct' for both on and off axis.
Sometimes the 'pick of a mic the bleed is part of the consideration.
 
I'm not trying to "show" anything at all. There are no gotchas. I just thought the mics sounded very different and I thought people might be interested in as direct a comparison as I could make.

While I did not try all 3 mikes in all spots, I did try 3 combinations, one with each mik in the center and the other two one the outside. I am satisfied that the character goes with the mic, not the spot.

I'm not sure why I included the prices. Maybe for context? It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm definitely not trying to show that the cheapest mic was somehow the best, because it wasn't. It was the worst hands down imo. Here's the answers:

Sample A: CAD SN210
Sample B: Shure SM57
Sample C: GLS Audio ES-57

I think in a sparse mix I will be reaching for the CAD, and in a dense mix the Shure.
 
Borodog said:
Yes, placement matters. Which is why I controlled for placement.
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Yeah, except you didn't, really. I'm not trying to rain on your parade because I love a good A/B test. I do them all the time. But the concerns brought up by others are valid. The only thing you've illuminated is that you can get different sounds from different mics in different placements. If you learned something from that, then mission accomplished.
 
Borodog said:
I think in a sparse mix I will be reaching for the CAD, and in a dense mix the Shure.
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I think though that you could just use one of the two mics and by adjusting it's position, make it work in either situation, as they weren't that different. Had you tossing some other types/styles of mics...then the tonal options would open up even more.

Not to mention, you could also adjust the snare a whole lot of ways to changes its tone....or even use a different snare altogether.

Anyway, I thought you were maybe audition mics to buy or something...and you wanted more opinions...etc.
 
miroslav said:
I think though that you could just use one of the two mics and by adjusting it's position, make it work in either situation,
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Bingo. That's the thing. On a snare, it's not as simple as saying "I'll use this mic for this sound or this mic for that sound". A snare drum is not like a vocal or acoustic guitar. Unless the drum tuning never wavers, the snare never moves in the room, and you get that specific mic into the exact same spot and angle every time, your track will never be the same. In my experience with miking drums, which is fairly extensive, I think any old average quality cardioid dynamic mic will record a good snare track with the right placement. Performance, tuning, head choice, and mic placement are each way more important than the mic itself.

And that's not even getting into the room or overheads. That's a whole 'nother set of variables and problems.
 
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