Signal Path, Bus, Aux, Gates & Sends

itsNobi

New member
So, there are two major subjects thats I'm trying to wrap my brain around. In this case (as it very well may be in general) they are closely related:
Signal path, especially related to FX's (pre-fade & post-fade)
Using a noise-gate for optimum recording
A little back story: we have a recording set-up. We will only be using it to record vocal via overdub. All of our instrumentation is digital, or synth; we make hip-hop & dancehall. We have a moderately quiet space in which to record, but there can sometimes be noise issues. We are ok with that. We arent trying to get a Grammy, but we do want music we can enjoy listening to; we likely wont sell anything, but we want the option.

That being said, we have an MXL770 cardioid, a mic thing, an IO2 Express, and Adobe Audition. After trial and error with gain control (hardware & software), I've come up with a few ideas, but...well here we go:
I want to use a noise gate to get less of the lower db ambiance recorded. I figured that this would go on an aux send pre-fade. But trying to figure out where in the signal path to place such an FX (or FX's & EQ's in general), I realized that I didnt understand enough about how a signal path works to use it correctly. I also wanted to set up a seperate mix for artist monitoring, so they have something nice to listen to as they record, but (again) where do I place the FX? on the bus? on the send? both? Pre- or Post-fade?

For artist monitoring, Im thinking I should add a compressor to up the vocals initially, a little reverb, and add a noise gate for ambiance elimination. The real reason this becomes a bit confusing is because I figured that the major steps Im missing between setting up the studio equipment and hitting the record button is setting up levels, and organizing my DAW's workspace (by setting up some tracks, buses and sends; and creating a proper monitor mix for my artist—something I plan to make a template/preset for once i figure out everything I want/need).

Lastly, I couldnt find a proper place for these questions:
I read that any level monitoring in a DAW is effective post-fade, so if your interface lacks direct monitoring, the level is automatically set via the interface. In my case, the direct monito stopped working, so I assumed that I could just monitor everything via my DAW. Is my assumption wrong?
I also want to be clear on how to set up the signal flow such that the monitoring will include FX/EQ that will not be included in the actual recording.

I mean, Ive been an artist for a while. Im trying to take the artist hat off, and put on a brand new engineering hat. So, what I mean is, engineers arent typically starting with an empty daw, then adding each track one-at-a-time as you record. They have something they do to set up—some prep work—and get levels, and prepare something for the artist. I just dont know what all that is, yet.

Any suggestions? Thnx in advance
 
Noise gates generally go right on the channel. Often they don't work especially well for reducing noise. They can be helpful for tailoring the decay of something like a drum. In most cases I would edit a track rather than gate it.
 
Noise gates generally go right on the channel. Often they don't work especially well for reducing noise. They can be helpful for tailoring the decay of something like a drum. In most cases I would edit a track rather than gate it.

Do they go on the track pre or post fader?
Edit the track how?
 
You would put them pre fader. The gate is sensitive to the signal level hitting it. If you put it post fader (after the fader), every time you move the fader, you would have to adjust the threshold on the gate to keep it responding the same way.

For the most part, you don't want to gate during recording. It's just asking for trouble, and as was said, noise gates aren't really useful for what you are trying to do.

Once you record the vocal, you can edit the performance in audition. All you do is cut out everything that isn't a vocal.

Compression during tracking (at least recording the compression) will make your background noise problems even worse.
 
You would put them pre fader. The gate is sensitive to the signal level hitting it. If you put it post fader (after the fader), every time you move the fader, you would have to adjust the threshold on the gate to keep it responding the same way.

For the most part, you don't want to gate during recording. It's just asking for trouble, and as was said, noise gates aren't really useful for what you are trying to do.

Once you record the vocal, you can edit the performance in audition. All you do is cut out everything that isn't a vocal.

Compression during tracking (at least recording the compression) will make your background noise problems even worse.

Thanks. I don't want to appear counter, but if when I view my levels, I see ambiance affect the levels. It is usually around -40db, where the lowest point of my vocals (even breathing) starts well about it. Why would it be a bad idea to gate the lower lever db's with a quick release & attack?
Would this be more of a gain control issue? Or is the only other viable option room treatment?

I'll add that room treatment isn't an option right now
 
You can gate it after you record it, by using a gate plugin or just editing out everything that isn't vocal.

When you gate on the way in, you run the risk of cutting off trailing notes and notes that start quietly and build up. If you gate on the way in, That stuff never gets recorded and you have to perform it again.

If you capture everything that happens, you have the control to get rid of or leave in anything you want after the fact.

I don't know anyone that gates vocals during recording and I've been doing this for a few decades.
 
You can gate it after you record it, by using a gate plugin or just editing out everything that isn't vocal.

When you gate on the way in, you run the risk of cutting off trailing notes and notes that start quietly and build up. If you gate on the way in, That stuff never gets recorded and you have to perform it again.

If you capture everything that happens, you have the control to get rid of or leave in anything you want after the fact.

I don't know anyone that gates vocals during recording and I've been doing this for a few decades.

Gotcha. Thanks.
 
Just to add, and I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence here. You might already know this. A gate only engages when your level goes below the threshold (ie., when you're not singing). As soon as you open the gate by singing, it lets everything though, noise included. That's why a few people mentioned that a noise gate isn't the best tool for noise removal.
 
I may be reading wrong, but basically u are trying to achieve less noise in your recorded vocals??
If so, two things come to mind. Are you getting enough signal while recording? If you record with low signal you raise the noise floor, which will become very noticable if you turn up that track or as mentioned above apply any necessary compression. Make sure you have a healthy signal with out being too hot. That will maximize the difference between your source and any unwanted noise.
Secondly, try a dynamic mic instead of a condenser for vocals. Dynamics are much less sensitive and provide great off axis rejection.
 
mic choice and noise

My opinion, unless you are recording vocals live in the same room as other instruments, you want to use a large diaphragm condenser on the vocals. This is not a rule, but if you are looking for clarity and warmth to your vocal track, a condensor will do much better. But, a condensor will pick up room sounds much stronger.. even a pin drop on the floor they are so sensitive... so a dynamic mic rejects other sources not directly in front of its element better... significantly. Condensors are powered also so signal input is hotter, meaning less preamp gain is required than a dynamic, generally lowering your noise. When you have to crank your mixers preamp, especially if a cheaper one, this is where you build a lot of that noise.

On gating, everyone is giving good advice. Don't do it destructively before the capturing process. It will 99% of the time cause you to cut off a sylable you need to hear in the vocal track, or a breath causing your vox to sound unnatural and be unsalvageable. You may ruin that perfect take, and you may not vet it back. You can always gate via your daw software and fine tune your settings. Also look into auditions noise reduction editing effect. Sample a small portion of just the noise of your audio track and capture the frequencies of the noise. Hit back highlight your entire track and apply that filter created by that sample. Just don't overuse it. Try a 65% reduction oherwise you'll hear some ugly artifacts. Auditions version of his is actually one of my favorites and can make a big difference. All that noise can add up over tracks!!
 
This is not a rule, but if you are looking for clarity and warmth to your vocal track, a condensor will do much better.

I'm pretty sure that's not true... You'd be getting that warmth if you used a warm mic, but if you're using something brighter, like a TLM 103, you're not going to get the warmth that you would with, say, a U87.
 
Instead of gating the vocals, I chop them up into short parts and cut out the noise manually. I also comp all my vocal tracks from about 4 takes, so it's more efficient than gating. I've never used gating on a recording, only for live stuff. Others use it in recordings, it's about your work flow.

As for mics, yeah LDCs are not always warmer than dynamics or ribbons. I used an NTK (LDC) for a long time, then switched to an SM7B (dynamic) and the dynamic is "warmer" and fits my voice better.

opinions are plentiful here, facts are not always, so be careful who and what you listen to.
 
As for the rest of the questions in the OP, work flow is very individual. I don't use templates for anything except drums. I have drum template I add when a song has drums...but I only record myself and a few friends, so the set up is the same most times. The rest of the "template" wouldn't work for me because not every song has the same parts and I HATE empty tracks in my song.

As far as using Aux sends and subgroups, you're gonna have to do some reading on what they are and see how your daw does them and how you want to set it up. I group all my drums so I can compress and reverb them together. I group all my electric guitars for the same reason. I group all my background vox too. But, sometimes I'll have a couple of reverbs (plate, room, long tail) set up and send tracks to the aux reverb. For me it depends on the song and what's going on, and basically how I feel about mixing that day.

In other words, you're gonna have to learn your tools and find what makes the most sense to you and works for your songs.
 
My opinion, unless you are recording vocals live in the same room as other instruments, you want to use a large diaphragm condenser on the vocals. This is not a rule, but if you are looking for clarity and warmth to your vocal track, a condensor will do much better.

I find actually trying various mics and choosing one based on how it sounds yields the best results. Sometimes my first guess is right but there's no way to know unless you try other mics. I find RE20s, MD421s, SM57s and other dynamic mics often turn out to be preferable.

But, a condensor will pick up room sounds much stronger.. even a pin drop on the floor they are so sensitive... so a dynamic mic rejects other sources not directly in front of its element better... significantly.

Probably the reason people think condensers are more sensitive to ambient noise is because they are the default studio vocal mic and typically placed further from the singer than a dynamic mic on stage. The further the singer is from the mic the more other sounds will intrude. Directional condensers have just as much rejection off axis. Condensers do often have better HF and transient response which can make noise seem more apparent.
 
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