Side Chain Compression

[ashcat_lt]

Not directly related to what we're talking about in this thread, but I wanted to note that duplicating a track and panning them out does nothing to make it sound wider. It's just making it louder. I'd recommend actually double tracking your vocals and doing this if you're wanting a wider vocal sound.

Good point!

Duplicating a track and panning the copies away from each other is not an "easy widening trick", it's an easy loudening trick. Just makes the whole thing louder. Period.

 

[gecko zzed]

I don't know how Mixcraft works, because I use Reaper.

I also use Reacomp for ducking. I can explain my process within Reaper, and maybe there is something you can take away from that.

Here is my task:

I have a vocal track, and a bunch of instrumental tracks. I want to organise things so that when the vocal is going, the other tracks are automatically reduced in level a bit, then revert when the vocal stops.

Here are the steps I use:

1 Create a group (or folder, whatever word people use for this) called 'band', and have all instrumental tracks part of this group.
2 Create a group called 'vocals', and put all vocal tracks into this.
3 In the vocals header track, change the number of sends from 2 to 4.
4 In the vocals header track, create a new send that goes to 'band'
5 Set the send tracks to be tracks 3 & 4.
6 Set the output of this send to 'pre fade' (so that you can mess about with vocal levels without influencing the side-chain).

Then:

7 Insert ReaComp as an effect on the Band header track.
8 Set Detector Input in ReaComp to Auxilliary L & R (which grabs the send tracks 3 & 4 from the vocal header.
9 Set the 'pre-comp' slider to about halfway. This is so that the ducking occurs a little bit before the vocal starts.
10 Set the 'attack slider' to about a third way so that the ducking starts smoothly, rather than abruptly (a bit like a fade-in).
11 Set the 'release' slider about halfway so that the ducking continues through small word breaks.

Then

12 Adjust the ReaComp threshold so that you get the right level of ducking.

I have no idea how well this would translate into Mixcraft, never having used it.

 

[ashcat_lt]

1 Create a group (or folder, whatever word people use for this)...

It's a folder. There are ways to group track controls and items, but that's a completely different thing in Reaper.

3 In the vocals header track

...by which you mean the parent track of the folder.

change the number of sends from 2 to 4.

I think you mean the number channels on the track, but I don't think you need to do this here. You need four channels on the band track.

5 Set the send tracks to be tracks 3 & 4.

You're still saying "tracks" when you mean "channels". You would set up the send from the vocal folder parent track to send channels 1&2 to channels 3&4 on the band folder parent.

8 Set Detector Input in ReaComp to Auxilliary L & R (which grabs the send tracks 3 & 4 from the vocal header.

K. The vocal folder has nothing on channels 3&4, it's sending 1&2 to the band folder's 3&4. By default, that's where ReaComp looks when you choose Aux L&R, but you can actually change that in the pin connectors to any channel or channels that you want.

I'm sure you can get it to work without really thinking about it or knowing exactly the right terms, but if you're trying to communicate with others, it does not help to confuse some of these.

I did mention above that the pre-comp (Yes, I think I called it "lookahead". Whatever you call it. ) shifts the entire envelope earlier in time. It does start to attack early, but it also starts to release early.

 

[gecko zzed]

It's a folder. There are ways to group track controls and items, but that's a completely different thing in Reaper.

...by which you mean the parent track of the folder.

I think you mean the number channels on the track, but I don't think you need to do this here. You need four channels on the band track.

You're still saying "tracks" when you mean "channels". You would set up the send from the vocal folder parent track to send channels 1&2 to channels 3&4 on the band folder parent.

K. The vocal folder has nothing on channels 3&4, it's sending 1&2 to the band folder's 3&4. By default, that's where ReaComp looks when you choose Aux L&R, but you can actually change that in the pin connectors to any channel or channels that you want.

I'm sure you can get it to work without really thinking about it or knowing exactly the right terms, but if you're trying to communicate with others, it does not help to confuse some of these.

I did mention above that the pre-comp (Yes, I think I called it "lookahead". Whatever you call it. ) shifts the entire envelope earlier in time. It does start to attack early, but it also starts to release early.

Thanks for your clarifying remarks. I was never that good with details. I just know what I do, but I'm never sure how to describe it.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Thanks for your clarifying remarks. I was never that good with details. I just know what I do, but I'm never sure how to describe it.

Yeah. You knew what you meant. I knew what you meant. Anybody with half a clue about Reaper knew what you meant. Probably most people who don't know Reaper got the gist as long as they have a general clue to begin with. Those folks aren't here asking these questions, though.

 

[MrWrenchey]

Good point!

Apparently I'm really good at reading. My bad!

 

[BroKen_H]

Not directly related to what we're talking about in this thread, but I wanted to note that duplicating a track and panning them out does nothing to make it sound wider. It's just making it louder. I'd recommend actually double tracking your vocals and doing this if you're wanting a wider vocal sound.

It CAN, if you nudge one side a few ms. Trick I use on the piano to make it stand out from the vocal when I want the piano center. Tricks the ear a bit, but yeah, you've got to watch volume if you copy and pan instead of separating the stereo tracks (which is easy in most DAWs). But it's easy as attenuating both channels by 3dB if you do copy and pan.

 

[martinweeks]

Thanks for all the help folks. Ashcat... VomitHat (wtf???)...Tadpui. You all have been great.

I've been working with the instructions, and I think I'm getting the hang of it...but I still seem to hear a bit of delay in the vocals (maybe ears just tired not sure.)

Went through the Manual for the DDLy from Izotope but it is way over my head. Seems like it does just the opposite though. Has delays when their is signal and cuts out when no signal. I'll keep playing with it. Cool plugin though. Great for creating "mad max" electric guitar stuff but that's about all I've accomplished.

Just saw an excellent video though on the Focusrite Scarlett Gate from their Scarlett Suite of Plugins. (If you own a scarlett, clarett or the other fancy one that uses optical connections You may in fact already have the Scarlett Suite of Plugins.)

In the video (care of Prosonus Studio One Website, the Host goes through the details of how the Scarlett Gate Works. It has a "L-R" cross feature which looks to me l ike exactly what a side chain compressor plugin (like in ProTools) would do. So would using this Gate work the same way or even more precisely? Or is a "Gate" too much Over Kill for what I'm attempting to do?

 

[VomitHatSteve]

VomitHat (wtf???)

I wear brightly colored flat caps. "Steve Smith" is a hard username to register.

In the video (care of Prosonus Studio One Website, the Host goes through the details of how the Scarlett Gate Works. It has a "L-R" cross feature which looks to me l ike exactly what a side chain compressor plugin (like in ProTools) would do. So would using this Gate work the same way or even more precisely? Or is a "Gate" too much Over Kill for what I'm attempting to do?

A gate is more or less the opposite of a compressor. Where a compressor lowers the volume whenever the control signal exceeds a certain threshold, a gate lowers the volume (mute) whenever the the control signal falls below the threshold.
That may be why the tutorial seemed to be working backwards for you.