Sibilance when recording lead overdriven guitar: is it my Scarlett 2i2?

T

toneranger

New member
Hi All,

Pretty frustrated with my setup. While I'm a lot closer now on capturing my sound (cloudlifter cl-1 helped a lot), I'm getting this annoying sibilance (high pitched sss sound) when tracking my overdriven strat lead sounds. I don't remember having this issue a while back when I used an M-Audio mobilepre.

I noticed the mobilepre has 55 db of gain as opposed to 46db for the Scarlett 2i2 I'm currently using. Could it be the interface? I'm using an sm57 into cloudlifter into the 2i2. Gain on the 2i2 is set at roughly 2 o'clock, can't have it any lower otherwise I lose too much power and don't get a nice fat wave.
 
I doubt the cloud lifter is relevant (on a mic'd amp why would you need it? 'Fat waveform' isn't relevant.

Maybe what really happened is the mic is a bit closer to the center?
(+/- 1/2 -to 1" or so on the cone can be quite relevant.)
 
Sounds like a mic or a speaker problem. Like mixsit asked, did you try moving the mic a bit? Changing the angle it faces to the speaker can also affect the sound, besides distance and actual placement.
 
toneranger said:
Could it be the interface?
Click to expand...

Hi,
You can probably troubleshoot a bit to figure out the problem.

First, sibilance is usually the word used when something we intend to capture is too bright or harsh; When the S should be there, but it stands out.
Constant hiss is something that will always be there but, ideally, shouldn't be audible.

Which do you have?

After that you need to work out if it's coming from the instrument/amp, or from the recording chain. That's easy to work out.
I agree the CL-1 probably shouldn't be needed, but I can't see it doing any harm unless it's causing clipping at some stage in the chain.
If you're dealing with hiss from your preamp, the CL-1 should be helping you to get further above it.

Don't worry about hot fat a visual representation of your recording is - Worry about signal to noise ratio and tone. ;)
If SNR and tone are good, you can place the recording wherever you want with digital gain or attenuation.
 
Thanks all. So I'm having the problem with both the sm 57 and a brand new MXL v67 mic. So odds are it's not the mics?

I have tried moving the mics around, I have more of a problem with the MXL condenser mic than with the sm57. Angling the sm57 off the speaker altogether seems to reduce the problem considerably, but my ears are still nervous about it.

Have you ever turned the light on in the bathroom and heard a high pitched ringing from one of light bulbs on your mirror? That's sort of what I'm hearing, a sort of sympathy ringing. Actually now that I think of it, it's like a higher pitched version of the sound a triangle makes, does that make any sense?

Thinking of just returning the Scarlett 2i2 and getting an M-Audio... how in the world the 2i2 is that popular with just 46 db of gain is beyond me....especially with guitar players
 
toneranger said:
Angling the sm57 off the speaker altogether seems to reduce the problem considerably, but my ears are still nervous about it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the noise is coming from the amp.

Plug guitar straight into amp (no pedals) then roll guitar volume off to 0 and see if the noise persists.
 
Thanks Steenamaroo,

It could be that the amp suddenly started ringing, but I don't hear the noise when playing live and didn't have the problem before when tracking.

Btw, checked out your website and am listening to "Cheer Down" cover as I type this: excellent playing all around. Is that you singing? Vocals are bang on too. Well done mate.
 
Steenamaroo,

I think you're right. It's my amp... it's emitting this high whistle-like overtone when I play the low strings on my guitar, like when I hit an open A or F# on the d string, the whistle overtone resonates more...
 
toneranger said:
Steenamaroo,

I think you're right. It's my amp... it's emitting this high whistle-like overtone when I play the low strings on my guitar, like when I hit an open A or F# on the d string, the whistle overtone resonates more...
Click to expand...

My bet is that is a valve amplifier? The whistle is a microphonic valve. Probably a preamp valve and so you can swap them around* to find a less sensitive one (e.g. probably be ok in the PI position). Quite possible however THESE DAYS to be a rattly power valve. "Filament ring" is quite common with modern (aka 'crap') valves!

Jeeeust possible it is a loose coil in the speaker! V rare and almost unknown in a Celestion.

* DO NOT! Swap valve types over! What I mean is do not fit a 12AT7 in the place of a 12AX7 or worse fit a 12AU7 there. You risk burning out the anode load resistors on some amps, especially old ones.

Dave.
 
Here's a sample of this mystery noise

You can hear it especially at about 9-11 seconds in and around 20-24 seconds. Turn up the volume.

What is that ringing? Can I kiss my amp's speaker's goodbye?
 

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  • sample noise problem.mp3
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Well, the amp is definitely cranked, or your gain is high, or both. How well is your room treated and the mic'd amp isolated, maybe with some bogos? (Open back cabinet against a hard wall?)

And, there's a lot of reverb there, which makes it a little hard to say for sure, but I'll lean to some other resonance in the room if it's not a microphonic tube or possibly guitar pickup. (Does it do this with every guitar?)

Start turning the volume down on the various pieces going into the amp, and see if it gets better when you turn one thing down. That'll help isolate it a bit.
 
Thanks Keith for piping in, appreciate it. Yes, it does it with every guitar.

Actually the amp is not cranked at all... it's at a 1.5 out of 10 !

The room is not treated, just a big 20 x 12 office with the open back amp against one of the walls in an L shaped corner.

I'll try turning the level down on my overdrive and see what happens

Big fan of Bill Kirchen by the way, stole some of his country-billy licks one time, great player
 
Sounds to me like nothing more than the speaker/cab resonating and creating the harmonic buzz...like maybe the cab can't handle that much low end cleanly.
Do you have another cab you can try?

Is this a combo or a head/cab?
Is the cab next to the wall?
Is it open in the back or closed?

[EDIT]

I just saw in your last post that it's open and against the wall, in a corner.

Try moving the whole rig out to the center of your space.
If it's still resonating like that on the lows...try putting a small pillow inside the open cab, under the speaker...or a towel or something to kill some of the resonance of the lows.
Also...make sure it's not actually something in the room that is resonating...and not the cab.
I have some track lights over a couple of my amps/cabs that will resonate on the lows at times. They have small glass UV filters that are only held by a wire clip, and that stuff will resonate, and is sounds like it's coming from the amp...but it's not.
 
There's a bit of a 'chirp at 9-11 -sounds like a string ring', and feedback in the 20-24 section. Is that what you're cuing in on? Not unusual stuff at all -with high gain every thing including playing artifacts naturally become relatively high in the overall sound.
 
It's a technical term...:)

I mean that the harmonic overtones are causing a sympathetic resonant buzzing in something.
 
miroslav said:
It's a technical term...:)

I mean that the harmonic overtones are causing a sympathetic resonant buzzing in something.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in how we're perceiving the sounds (re his, mine :)
His descriptions have been 'like a triangle ring, and 'esses.

To OP then; If it isn't the feed back in 20-24, which 'artifact then?
(That is actually in a completely different freq range than the chirp that pokes out earlier.
 
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