Should I use a Direct Input box?

adosjky

New member
Hello, I currently have a PC, obviously. Running FL Studio 12 with various plugins etc. To record guitar or bass, or singing, I'll plug the relevant instrument or mic into my usb audio interface

( M-Audio M-Track | Two-Channel Portable USB Audio and MIDI Interface (24-bit/48 kHz )

Then that plugged into my computer.

My question is, would a Direct Input improve the sound quality of my signal, or would I be better served buying a better Audio Interface?

Or perhaps what I've got is good enough and I just need to learn how to maipulte the signal better via the software?

Thank you.

ADosjky
 
You wont improve the quality by adding a direct box but you can change the timbre. Say using a di with a coil or a tube or even a fet pre can add different flavors prior to the signal hitting your interface. But as long as the interface you use has a di input the only way to a "better" sound would be a different interface with higher quality filters and converters, which of course increases costs. I like to use different DI's and pre's for color, just like using different mics or mic pre's
 
Hi ADosjky and welcome. There are two 'M-Track' interfaces, mk1 &mkll. The mk1 is identical to the Alesis i02 unit and I had one for a while and found it very good, especially for the price of some $100 US.

Both marks have DI high impedance inputs for guitar so no, you don't really need a DI box. As has been said, some of the cheaper, passive DI boxes can add a bit of 'character' (actually distortion and a limited frequency response! The better units from such as Radial and Orchid have impeccable specs) .

Generally it is always better to record 'clean and dry' (and at sensible levels e.g. -18dBFS)then, having made a backup, you can mangle the track to your hearts with software.

Instead of a DI box you might like to bone up on 'Re-amping' ? That needs a slightly different box. Mssrs Orchid Electronics can also help there.

Dave.
 
Or perhaps what I've got is good enough and I just need to learn how to maipulte the signal better via the software?

^^This^^


Hardware, especially the interface, is the nearly the last thing to change to improve the audio quality. So many other variables affect quality before you start looking at a DI box or interface.

The instrument,
the player,
the person recording/mixing,
the room it's played,
the room it's mixed in,
the monitors,
the mic,
the song...
etc...


First step is to identify what exactly is it about your audio that doesn't sound good.
 
A DI box is the solution to the problem of connecting an unbalanced instrument output to a mic input (especially when there's a long XLR cable between them). Is that a problem you need to solve?
 
I'm gonna disagree with everyone and say that you might actually want a DI for your guitar and bass.

Are you, in fact, using the M-track as your original post implies, or was that an ad inserted bye the forum automatically?

If you're using the M-track (or a similar interface), it has 3-types of input it can accept: a "guitar" in, line in, and mic in (with the latter two often using the same port)

This gives you two distinct pre-amp chains into the device. In my experience, guitar ins are often fairly low quality. Even a cheap DI into the mic input will probably give you a cleaner signal and require less processing later.
 
I'm gonna disagree with everyone and say that you might actually want a DI for your guitar and bass.

I didn't say he shouldn't use one or at least have one around. "High impedance" can mean different things. What's high enough for a magnetic pickup might not be high enough for a piezoelectric pickup in an acoustic guitar.
 
I didn't say he shouldn't use one or at least have one around. "High impedance" can mean different things. What's high enough for a magnetic pickup might not be high enough for a piezoelectric pickup in an acoustic guitar.

Fine. "I'm gonna disagree with most everyone."

:D
 
Most, if not all, consumer level interfaces (I'm throwing the M-Track into that category) have one pre-amp per channel then use a switchable resistive network to provide a pad and Hi-Z input for Mic, Line or Guitar. A DI box isn't going to benefit the OP any; the inputs go to the same pre-amp.

He prompted a choice between a DI box or a new interface as a way to improve the quality of his signal. Those two items should be at the bottom of his list, not the top. I think a lot of people here at HR could get a very usable mix using the M-Track and prove that it is not hindering the OP. I hate to steer the guy in the wrong direction.

Hey Steve, are you seeing ads in the forum posts?? Those automated "keyword" links?
 
I very much doubt a high Z input is derived by a simple resistive attenuator?

If we allow 100k as the minimum likely load then that would cause nearly 40dB of attenuation to the mic input (assuming a Zin of the normal 1k5) . The 100k resistor would also cause unacceptable noise.

My experience of instrument inputs, both in forums and at home is that they often have far to MUCH gain! I have never found an unusually noisy one?

No, generally an 'impedance converter is used, often a single FET source follower, sometimes (and better!) a jfet op amp.

The M Track (the identical Alesis i02 is shown) even uses a separate jack from the mic input.

How the signals are routed inside the AI G.A.Knows, AI schematics are hard to find, but I shall have a do! MOST likely they DO run the HZ into the mic pre.

Dave.
 

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I have a consumer grade m audio mobile pre 24 44k for , well, mobile recording and it seems to record DI perfectly fine to me. That said, I prefer to grab a mic and splitter so that the DI is just back up or for possible reamping, etc. As for DI boxes I have both passive and active boxes and as I said previously, I have used both DIs and preamps for a different "color" I don't normally use them for anything but bass guitar which , just as has been pointed out, decreases dynamic range effectively compressing the signal somewhat. I would contend that a direct box, even a high dollar one wont necessarily sound "better" than going straight into interface, but it will sound different. Let's face it, no DI , box or interface is going to get a great guitar sound, so why worry about how good it is when you are going to effect it anyway? As long as the signal isn't being degraded, I'd say not to look to change what you're already using.
 
Wow, I did not expect to garner such a heated discussion.

I will not be buying a DI box, after reading all the advice, and reviews from external sites its clear that's not what I need.

I've read however that the alesis io2 is only 48khz, where as most others are 192khz. Is it not better using a 192khz interface?

The solo I recorded, has lots of drawn out notes, sustained via effects VSTs, but the overall tone sounds thin.

I just wonder if have a better audio interface would give me a better sound wave in the first instance to then manipulate?

Cheers.

Also, what would you say is the best interface, for under £200. I would need to record electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass, and vocals. Everything else I do via the DAW.

Adosjky.
 
"I've read however that the alesis io2 is only 48khz, where as most others are 192khz. Is I not better using a 192khz interface?"

NO!! There IS some debate (mainly cork sniffing IMHO!) that 96kHz is better than 44.1kHz (I am sure the i02 does that) but absolutely no firm evidence. Pretty sure most folks, projjy and pro' run 44 and 48 for video.

You do want to run at 24bits.

Dave.
 
If I got a 192khz interface, I'd I not have the option to record at different rates? Depending on when I needed or wanted more or less definition?
 
I suggest you get a guitar preamp, something with real time amp simulation, and run it into the line input of your current interface.
 
I've read however that the alesis io2 is only 48khz, where as most others are 192khz. Is it not better using a 192khz interface?

192khz sampling doesn't really provide any better results. It is so far above the Nyquist frequency. It will add tons of data to your audio files. Data that fills up your hard drive, makes your cpu work harder and provides no better results. I, and many others, record at 44khz sampling. 24bit word length is a good option as it provides a much lower noise floor. So, 44khz and 24 bit is good. Your 48khz sampling is good. You can leave it there and be assured you're not compromising you sound

The solo I recorded, has lots of drawn out notes, sustained via effects VSTs, but the overall tone sounds thin.

That's part of getting the sound right at the source. In my previous post, I mentioned a good instrument, the guitar amp and effects are part of that... or in your case, the VST. Get what you want coming out of the speakers. You could be over-doing your audio. What VSTs are you using?

Also, what would you say is the best interface, for under £200. I would need to record electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass, and vocals. Everything else I do via the DAW.

Adosjky.

Everyone has their opinions on interfaces. In reality, they are all very similar. For under $200 you can look at the focusrite scarlett series.
 
"That's part of getting the sound right at the source. In my previous post, I mentioned a good instrument, the guitar amp and effects are part of that... or in your case, the VST. Get what you want coming out of the speakers. You could be over-doing your audio. What VSTs are you using?"

I don't use a guitar amp, as I don't have one. I plug directly into my alesis io2. That's why I'm worried that the sound isn't sustaining for as long as I would want it to.

Am I allowed to link to a soundcloud here?

As for the VSTs I couldn't tell you exactly as I'm at work, but the effects pedals are via amplitube 4.
 
"That's part of getting the sound right at the source. In my previous post, I mentioned a good instrument, the guitar amp and effects are part of that... or in your case, the VST. Get what you want coming out of the speakers. You could be over-doing your audio. What VSTs are you using?"

I don't use a guitar amp, as I don't have one. I plug directly into my alesis io2. That's why I'm worried that the sound isn't sustaining for as long as I would want it to.

Am I allowed to link to a soundcloud here?

As for the VSTs I couldn't tell you exactly as I'm at work, but the effects pedals are via amplitube 4.

"Sustain" is generally in the gift of the guitar! There are some luthiers on the strength? I bet they can suggest some tweaks? Meantime, if it has a bolt on neck, tighten the bolts!

However, how exactly are you running things? If using 'Direct Monitoring' you are stuck with a 'dry' signal. You could use a touch of reverb from the DAW but that supposes the interface/PC system can give low enough latency.

BTW, I do NOT agree that "All interfaces at around $200 are about the same" ? Sweetwater have the KA6 for $199 and that beats any AI I know of at the price for latency, connectivity, driver solidity and bundled/downloadable software. The converters are bloody good as well!

Dave.
 
The standalone (dongleless) license for PodFarm is like $100 and will get you a lot further than a new interface.

The passive electric guitar is about the lowest resolution device that we normally use in the studio. It has a dynamic range of maybe 70db if it's designed and wired properly and you happen to be standing in a null in the EM field and the refrigerator isn't running and there's no trucks driving by. Its pickups cannot produce any voltage discernible from that noise above about 10K. So like you could record it at 12bit 20KHz and still be getting more than you need.

But we (almost) never actually want to hear that much dynamic range out of an electric guitar, and nobody really wants to hear the full frequency range. We're used to hearing them through guitar amps, so we expect them to be smashed down between a little and almost completely with compression, overdrive, or distortion. Then it comes through the woofer that we call a guitar speaker, which won't reproduce much more than a warm fart (to paraphrase a friend at the guitar nutz forum), so anything that happens to come squeeze out of the pickups above like 5K just falls off a cliff. But then somewhere in the middle of all this is some tone stack which is only not mid-scooped when the other two knobs are all the way down, and of course the particular resonances of the cabinet...and the room...and the mic...

You don't need an amp to do those things. EQs and compressors and saturators can do them, and really give you a lot more control. But PodFarm looks cool, and the different amps are like time tested presets. :)

But then, there are no wrong answers. I have a friend that records almost completely direct, and comes up with individual tones that make me want to puke, but somehow it works in the mix, and says exactly what he's trying to say, so I can't really say he's doing it wrong. Like, I've tried putting an amp sim on some of his stuff, and it just doesn't sound like him anymore.
 
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