Scratch tracks

[grimtraveller]

I never use scratch tracks, I know what I'm doing enough by now to go straight to a take. I can remember what goes where, even in quite long complex songs.

Bragger

I know where Armistice is coming from on that. I feel pretty much the same way. But I'll use them primarily to avoid spillage from the drums {in the case of acoustic guitars or double bass}. I'm for getting the keepers down as quickly as possible and proceed from there.

 

[scorpio01169]

I never use scratch tracks, I know what I'm doing enough by now to go straight to a take. I can remember what goes where, even in quite long complex songs.

Maybe I'm not sure that's the point of a scratch track for most people...For me and most people I know, it's for song position when doing punch ins. A scratch track along with a click track is almost always used.

 

[grimtraveller]

for most people...For me and most people I know,

I guess there are different uses of them.

 

[miroslav]

Most times I've discarded the guide but on a couple of occasions, I've agreed with them and used it and it did indeed sound pretty good, especially when it was a female singer.

Well that explains it....female vocalists are more sensitive and think eveything they sing is gold... ...and they tend NOT to like doing lots of takes on anything!
At least the few I've worked with....wait, I take that back, there was one who was really laid back...she didn't mind doing as many takes as I asked her.
I tried getting her back in the studio a few times....but then she went and got married.

 

[grimtraveller]

female vocalists are more sensitive and think eveything they sing is gold...

Not the ones I've had sing for me ! Very rarely will any of the ones I know say "Yeah, that's the one !"

and they tend NOT to like doing lots of takes on anything!

I don't know anyone that actually likes doing lots of takes on anything. I hate it personally. Get it banged out as quickly as possible.

 

[Tadpui]

I use the scratch track as a reference for where I am in a song while I'm tracking other instruments. Usually I'm flying by the seat of my pants, the song is very new, and I'm trying to come up with all of the individual parts for the song as I go along. By the time I've laid down a scratch track, the structure and lyrics are pretty well set. But when I'm playing drums (for instance), it takes so much of my focus to be able to play somewhat in time that I don't have much focus left over to recall by memory where I am in the song...I'm not a drummer so it's not 2nd nature to me to let my mind wander while I hammer away. Same with bass. And heavens help me if I'm trying to play the keyboard...

 

[miroslav]

Not the ones I've had sing for me ! Very rarely will any of the ones I know say "Yeah, that's the one !"I don't know anyone that actually likes doing lots of takes on anything. I hate it personally. Get it banged out as quickly as possible.

No I don't think anyone does....but sometimes you just have to go the distance.

 

[Mr Clean]

I've always gigged my new songs for a good few months before I record them som when it comes to recording, I know exactly what I'm doing and what is going to be where. Recording a song usually always starts with just a live acoustic and vocal track and I got into the habit of exporting that scratch track to mp3 and keeping it. Then when I'm done recording I have a live demo and a polished turd.

 

[Armistice]

Maybe I'm not sure that's the point of a scratch track for most people...For me and most people I know, it's for song position when doing punch ins. A scratch track along with a click track is almost always used.

I set out a basic drum pattern or patterns for the length of the song - I don't use clicks/metronomes, always drum patterns - and then I play the first (guitar) track - make sure it's exactly what I want and good enough to be a keeper, and from that point on there is no need for a scratch track, and I continue to build the song.

I'm not sure why you'd be punching things in without a well enough developed recording to not require a scratch track.

Rarely I may go back to that first track and decide it's not what I want any more, but that's not because it's a rough scratch track.

I used to make the other half of my ex-band play to just a drum track, and I had to be there conducting him quietly so he remembered when the verse ended and when the bridge arrived... and these were for his songs... never worked out why he couldn't remember where he was up to without singing... I mean, you can sing along in your head.

I don't do that either, but I note the lines as they pass - if indeed the tune has lyrics yet - if not, I just count.

Maybe I'm a freak - but we're not playing Rachmanninov here, it's just pop music.

 

[JDOD]

I've always gigged my new songs for a good few months before I record them som when it comes to recording, I know exactly what I'm doing and what is going to be where. Recording a song usually always starts with just a live acoustic and vocal track and I got into the habit of exporting that scratch track to mp3 and keeping it. Then when I'm done recording I have a live demo and a polished turd.

Ah, the writing and recording process are simultaneous for me so the entire thing is a scratch track until I have finished writing it!

 

[BroKen_H]

I keep breaking my own rule: Never push your vocals. That's why I usually limit myself to three takes in a day per song. I have a decent voice when I don't push, but it gets harsh when I start pushing lots of air. Used to sing Alvin Slaughter/Geoff Tate style when I was young and needed LOTS of air. Can still hit some of the notes, but doesn't sound like it did when I was in the 20s. I guess the point is, my vocals always sound good on my scratch tracks cause I'm not "trying" so hard...just usually am messing up the lyrics or they're not nailed down yet, and then when I go back I start trying to push endless cycle...

 

[miroslav]

Well..."pushing" is another thing.
I was only saying that sometimes even if you think take 1 is perfect...do a few more and decide later rather than just stopping after 1-2.

I'll go for 3-5 passes. The first often sounds good, but it's rarely the keeper because there's always that bit of uncertainty in the phrasing...the phrasing is too ad-lib, and there's maybe to occasional hard-to-reach note/word that fails.
I find that like the 3rd-4th takes end up being the most steady throughout AFA tone, and phrasing is the most in sync...and the delivery is still fairly fresh.
After that....it kinda goes downhill.

 

[grimtraveller]

Would you not have rehearsed it first though ? Even scratch/guides need rehearsing.

 

[miroslav]

Well....we're talking about our own stuff, right?
OK...so like when I'm writing a tune, I probably play and sing it a hindered times through before it's finished.
So when I go to actually track vocals, 3-5 takes are pretty much it....though I usually do at least 1-2 partial passes just the get the mic/pre set, but I'm not really trying too hard....so that's why I say that while the first full tracking pass is pretty good, it tends not to be the best, and by the 3rd-4th pass I have what I want....then I'll do one more safety take.
I like to just run through the takes 1-2-3-4-5 in rapid succesion....as quick as my tape deck can rewind. That way they are pretty close in sound/feel.

Any time I've comp'd vocals from say, 5 takes...Take 1 ends up getting the least use for the comp. It's always Take 3 that becomes the "base vocal" of the final track, and the others are used for the spot comps/fixes. That's just how it tends to work out for me.
I'm sure other people are different AFA where their voice is at it's best. Like if you're the type who belts/screams out songs at full-tilt....you're probably not going to have much left after the 3rd take, or at least it will not be the same as those first couple of passes.

I'm not an exceptional singer...but from all the years of recording, I know how to work the mic and how to listen to the take WHILE I'm singing...so I'm conscious of where/what is happening and what I need to adjust on the next pass...etc...so I'm effectively "comping" as I'm doing the takes.

I'd much rather work with an exceptional singer...and then I can just sit back and do the "engineer" thing.

 

[The Uninvited]

I'm terrible. I try to lay down drum and rhythm guitar together as my scratch tracks. It usually takes me two or three goes but I end up with my chord changes in the right places and my drum rolls and fills where I want them. Click tracks/metronomes just annoy me so I never bother with them. My scratch track forms the basis for all my songs and although I might scrap the guitar part once I've overdubbed it, the drums usually stay.

 

[Supercreep]

I don't think there is any point in making a track you can't use.

 

[MrUserNameIV]

I almost never intentionally record scratch tracks, just because sometimes the first take is the best take. That said, sometimes the first try does end up being a scratch track. It depends on how it comes out, if it needs more work then it'll be re-recorded later on, but I try not to over-think it or make it too procedural. Any time something's being recorded, I hope for the best performance the person can do, because you never know where the right take will come from. Sometimes from the first shot, sometimes way down the line. Every musician or singer will be different, and every session with every singer or musician will be different. Go with whatever works.